this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2026
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Relationships and dating are messy, but i have a question for you:
Is it more important for you to signal that you are attracted to this woman you've never interacted with, or is it more important to just strike up a standard conversation and treat her like any stranger you meet?
In my experience as a woman, men often don't realize that they are very clearly signaling their sexual attraction/view of this woman as a romantic prospect, which doesn't seem like much of an issue except for the fact that you've never actually spoken to this woman.
Ergo, the woman is fully aware you are attracted to her and view her as a prospect purely because of how she looks -- this is objectification as you have no idea whether you are compatible.
You are far likely to get a positive response if you treat her like literally any other person and not a prospect. We don't like being objectified by strangers, but we don't mind making new friends. Save the romance for after the first conversation at the very least.
This is not me telling you youre doing anything wrong, but im pointing out something a lot of men do not even realize they are doing when they approach a woman. We can usually see men's intentions, they are not good at hiding them. Change your intentions from "i wanna date this woman" to "id like to see if this person is down for a conversation".
This comment sat weirdly with me for a minute. I am not saying you are incorrect. I just think there is some conceptual friction.
I think the issue is inserting "dating" in the path of "sexual attraction," and not just with your comment. Dating and sex are tied together in a way that rubs me the wrong way because it gatekeeps "sex" behind "relationship" in a way that isn't equally distributed, culturally. It doesn't freely offer the "one-night stand" to all genders. And I don't think you can cleanly say "all men are happy with one-night stands, and all women are against one-night stands."
You don't need to know what someone's favorite movie is to think they're hot. And you don't need to know whether they have any siblings to have sex with them. However, there does seem to be some expectation that men won't provide the necessary intimacy for good sex unless they're committed in a relationship. And it also assumes women are already primed and ready throw everything, emotionally, into a relationship at the drop of the pants.
The only things you need to have (good) sex with someone is: physical compatibility, so the bits interact in ways that feels good for all participants; and social compatibility, insofar as being able to smoothly communicate. All participants need to be able to view the other people as active contributors, to ask and accede to their boundaries and desires while also properly expressing their own.
I think the assumption/fear of "objectification" is valid. I'm aware you are a woman sharing a woman's perspective of "courtship," and I don't want to appear to or actually dismiss you out of hand. But I wonder how much of the reticence toward sexual openness is some residual patriarchal fear of being seen as "libertine."
This is a TL;DR that just came to me: "viewing someone as sexual is only objectification if the assumption is the person is being used for sex instead of having sex with them."
You make some really good points that are really good in conjunction with, but don't fully dispute my point.
I like that you point out that sexual attraction and a dating connection are different though not mutually exclusive. I also like that you brought up female sexual liberation and the assumption that most women don't want one night stands (they very often do!).
I guess I'll clarify my initial point. I think a lot of men grow up thinking women are very different from them, so they add all this extra pressure on themselves specifically on interactions with women, and women can generally tell. I guess what I'm truly trying to say here is that putting women you've never met on a pedestal (eg. She's so pretty, I have to tell her how beautiful I think she looks or use the perfect pickup line so this beautiful woman will go on a date with me) is just another form of objectification.
To give personal anecdotal context just so you can fully grasp the feeling im frustrated with: I'm weird. I'm fairly attractive and I do get approached, but i am fucking weird. I do not want a man who does not know me to approach me telling me how beautiful he thinks I am, expecting to get my number, because I know damn well that there's a high chance that if I give it to him, he will quickly realize how fucking weird I am and ghost me.
I don't mind if somebody says "hey I really like your band shirt/your shoes/your hat, etc." -- or my jacket with my patches on (always a great convo starter) -- always love when somebody likes a band i also like! But this means its an open conversation with no assumptions being made.
Basically, have a full conversation with me before you ask for my number, then we can see where this could go. I intentionally show my weird very quickly in conversation so people know what they are getting into.
So yeah, I don't think you're wrong, but I do think potential dating/sex/friendships can be approached all the same, unassuming way. People are people, and I don't wanna give my number to somebody I've never spoken to because he thinks I'm pretty. Please give me a better reason to continue interacting basically.
This, I fully agree with. I wasn't seeing the situation where someone sees you and says "give me your phone number" because that seems insane to me. Yeah, some positive conversation should happen before people go around demanding semi-permanent means of contact. Beyond niceties, that's just unsafe with the unfortunate likelihood of some psycho digging into your socials.
Right?! It is absolutely insane, but so many guys will do that. There are so many things guys do that other guys don't believe because they're fuckin insane things to do lol
Yeah, a lot of people have incomprehensible, arcane rules to dating and attraction that you'll never suss out unless you are who they're trying to attract.
This is totally true too. Each person is an individual and there is no advice that will work to get everyone's attention. Sometimes people just don't want to be approached, even if you do everything "right".
There's a whole bunch of literally insane things guys will do thinking it's going to get them laid. I don't know where they learn it from that this works given how often they seem to get told to piss off.
Any statement that begins with "all " is 99.44% likely to be incorrect. That being said, men are far more prone to be interested in one-night stands than women are. Are women sometimes interested in one-night stands? FUCK yes! I'd suspect every woman on Earth has had a moment where they at least very seriously entertained (if not actually took) the possibility of a one-night or a short-term fuck-fest. (I spent two weeks on a holiday shacked up with a guy I met on the plane there. Never saw nor heard from him again and I'm fine with that.) But I'd also suspect a whole lot more men entertain this possibility a whole lot more frequently. This has to do with the fact that men don't bear the biological costs of childbirth; the risk analysis is entirely different.
So on the whole I think it's perfectly safe to assume that men are far more interested in (and far more likely to participate in) casual sex than women. Just #NotAllMen.
This. THIS RIGHT FUCKING HERE.
All my fucking life I've had people come on to me because "I'm their sexual fetish" (read: Asian). Many of them have actually come out and said that in those words thinking, somehow, that this was going to be flattering to me, not something that would instantly put my hand near one of my knives just in case.
Interact with people socially. Find shared interests. Do things together without the whole sex thing hanging between you. And you know what? If you come across right, you'll get laid. Even if you're not conventionally attractive.
If you come across as only being interested in me for my shape, my ethnicity, and where you can place which appendages in which receptacles, however, I don't give a flying fuck how hot you look or not. You're not getting anywhere near me. (I mean unless I'm cruising a pick-up joint, in which case being there is the signal that I'm available, duh.)
The best relationships are the ones that you accidentally fall into from a friendship.
I vet what you are saying, but also if you are out looking for a relationship, you are kind of looking for physical, mental, and emotional compatability.
Telling someone "I think you are hot" is not necesarily objectifying them. It may just be saying "There are three hurdles here (maybe more) and this one here, that is a foot tall that is extremely easy to step over, has been stepped."
Suggesting its always objectifying eliminates the prospect that they are just trying to get to the next, much harder hurdles.
Hey! I just responded to another comment that qarbone made and I think it adequately covers a lot of this stuff too.
I'm very much not trying to say it's always intended to be objectifying, but that it feels objectifying when somebody leads with that, because people are more than that. And if you are trying to strike up a conversation with a woman, considering how something feels to her, regardless of your intention, is important because it will dictate her response.
To me, a man I've never met approaching me saying "I think you are hot" reads to me like "I saw you and I covet you, and I don't care much about your substance."
You are allowed to think a woman is hot, but perhaps don't lead with it because it signals that is the only reason why you are talking to her, regardless of if that is true or not.
Women are often very intentional with their fashion, so a tried and true way of striking up a convo in an unassuming way is to comment/compliment on a choice they made
Example: "I really like your shirt/bag/shoes/jacket, etc., it looks really cool!/goes really well with your outfit!" (Make note of the adjectives. Do not call a stranger hot/sexy/etc. In the first sentence - that puts unneeded pressure on the interaction because we do not know what kind of guy you are - keep the compliment neutral, like how you'd compliment a guy)
It's important to note that your intentions do not matter if they do not match your perceived intentions.
Not if your general treatment of strangers doesn't involve talking to them.
My point is treat women like you're trying to make a friend, not like a person you are trying to date because you don't know enough about them as a person to even know if there will be a connection.
If you'd approach people you don't know for dates but not friendship, that's your own problem and maybe something to work on.
Women don't want to be liked for how they look, they want to be liked for who they are.
Hard disagree here. I love being liked for how I look.
I just don't put out because you say I look nice. It's a foot in the door at best, and only if you praise it in ways that don't come across like you're viewing me as a slab of meat with orifices.
I mean unless I'm in a hook-up joint, duh.
Fair enough!
Wanted to drop in and say I really appreciate your patient and well crafted responses in this thread! You get your points across in such an easy to read way. I really enjoyed the back and forth you had with others here :)
That is so kind, thank you!
I have to agree. @Banana@sh.itjust.works has been a real champ at actually conversing.
Sounds like you need to fix your general treatment of strangers then, rather than fixing your approach to women you find attractive.
I have a pathological fear of making anyone's day worse unless they give me a very good reason. I probably do need to work on that somewhat, but I also think many people feel too entitled to others' time.
I’m a similar way. I think what you put out is what you attract, generally.
So if you’re being flirty and super forward with a stranger, the ones that bite probably aren’t thinking too far beyond looks and vibes either. Higher chance of it becoming a casual or short-term engagement.
Define "flirty" here. I've seen conventionally attractive women described as "flirty" for being just, you know, generally friendly. And yet women who are not conventionally attractive doing the same thing aren't called "flirty".
It's kind of a landmine that one is. If I smile, am I flirting? If I laugh at a joke, am I flirting? If I show off a new outfit spinning in place, am I flirting?
Then there's "super forward". I'm a social builder. In any social group I look for the people being left out and try to ensure they have an invite into joining things. (If they really don't want to I back off, natch.) So if I approach you at a party where you're just looking around like you have no idea what you're doing, introduce myself, start asking questions ... is that me being "super forward" or me quickly assessing where you'd fit in best so you don't feel isolated and alone in the group?
It's probably not a good idea to call someone "flirty" and "super forward" without reading very carefully why you think either is the case. Wait for the bodily contact, the smoking look-overs, the slow lick of the lips or such first.
As an introvert who likes being around people, I just want to say thank you for doing this type of thing. I enjoy hanging out with people but breaking the ice and talking can be hard.
Thing is, I'm an introvert. I know how hard it is to be on the outside looking in, desperately wanting to be involved but not knowing how.
It took literally DECADES of hard effort for me to force myself through that barrier. I want to make that barrier a lot lower for others so they don't have to be like I was.
It’s super appreciated. I did that in my 20s, broke myself out of my shell and started going out doing stuff with random folks. But I stopped that after I was out of commission for a year (fuck drunk drivers), then Covid hit and I am now 40 trying to break out of my shell again lol
I do 1000% agree with this.
So in general im not saying it never works to approach somebody telling them they're hot, but you really cannot fault a woman for not liking it because there are tons of valid reasons not to. Mostly I'm annoyed at guys who only do this and hate women for responding in a way they do not like, or claim women do not like them when they've literally never tried anything else and refuse to listen to women when they tell them how they want to be approached.
But fuck ya if you're a slutty man at a party and wanna put out flirty slut vibes to find a slutty woman, I'm sure you'll find one (hell, you'll likely get approached!). As long as everyone's being honest, yknow.
edit: woops, didn't realize the sub I was on.
Edit: i see you edited your comment, but ill leave mine as-is because it could be useful to somebody
I actually talk to strangers super often lol. I really like metal music so, for example: I saw a guy at my gym with a Cannibal Corpse tshirt and I just said "hey man, by the way, I really like your shirt", and now we say hi when we see each other.
I have another male friend at the gym who literally approached me and said "wow, you lift heavy" (note that you can absolutely say this to a man, this is not a gender specific comment) - I enjoyed that interaction, it was honestly great and made me feel good because it was clear that I was working hard and it was a recognition of that work. It felt like respect.
I talk to strangers at concerts A LOT, especially when out for a smoke (great place to meet new people, you don't even have to smoke). It's important to have an end to the convo built into your greeting, because you can gauge pretty easily whether somebody wants to continue talking based on their response. If you have these little interactions frequently enough, people that share public spaces with you will just start to recognize you.
Idk I've been doing this forever and I didn't think it was that foreign a concept to people. Maybe it depends on where you're from.
Metalhead. And you lift.
If there is a perfect woman out there, I think I have found her. Pity I'm in a committed, very long term relationship. 🤭
(In my case, music-head, but metal is a large part of that. And I lift. Though I only lift heavy on leg day. My arms stubbornly remain cooked noodles after years.)
Hahaha well thanks! I am also in a committed and very long-term relationship with a fellow metalhead.
Boy do i love being strong, haha, I was blessed with shoulders built to carry a yoke.
I was born with, according to my bastard trainer (an ex-student of mine), and I quote, "sturdy peasant legs".