this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2026
194 points (100.0% liked)

Europe

11673 readers
1021 users here now

News and information from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in other communities.
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
  10. Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.

(This list may get expanded as necessary.)

Posts that link to the following sources will be removed

Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media (incl. Substack). Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com

(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)

Ban lengths, etc.

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the admin that applied the rule (check modlog first to find who was it.)

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)
BUT if every EU country had dealt with UK as single state, even if working with other countries, the result would have been very different.

Most likely, but they could have created a way to fully copperate.

So they should have something like EU without having something like EU.

So the point is ?

The countries don’t need the political structure of the EU. They could cooperate in other ways. Going for itself doesn’t require to act in the most selfish way.

True, but a political structure like EU solves a lot of problems when you think about cooperating: without EU every cooperation agreement would be a bilateral agreement between two states, and every pair could (and would) be different.
I am old enough to remember how it was to do business before the current EU, not to talk about travelling.

And in the Élysée …

Some words are missing.

You are right, sorry.
I was saying that in the Élysée Treaty, the US, NATO or any other country or organization were never mentioned and the US president at the time (Kennedy) was not happy about it.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

So they should have something like EU without having something like EU.

Yes. We started with Hungary blocking the EU. The countries could just have continued their EU behaviour outside of the EU.

True, but a political structure like EU solves a lot of problems when you think about cooperating

It does. Which makes blocking the EU inconvenient but it doesn't block the countries.

and the US president at the time (Kennedy) was not happy about it.

The question is why? Did he just want the best for Europe and Nato or was the US losing too much influence?

[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yes. We started with Hungary blocking the EU.

Which is why the unanimity rule is obsolete in my opinion. When EU was smaller, it made sense, now not anymore since there is no way that every decision is good for everyone.
Even a single state that had the unanimity rule would be problematic: no decision could be made since nothing will be good for everyone. Same for EU, if we must decide on something and it need to be good for everyone there are 2 cases: 1) your result would be useless since it would be watered down in many ways or 2) you don't decide.

The countries could just have continued their EU behaviour outside of the EU.

They did, but they did not used the weight of EU, which is bigger than the sum of the single states.

True, but a political structure like EU solves a lot of problems when you think about cooperating

It does. Which makes blocking the EU inconvenient but it doesn’t block the countries.

Again, it is true, you are not blocking the countries. But they have not the same weight of EU.

and the US president at the time (Kennedy) was not happy about it.

The question is why? Did he just want the best for Europe and Nato or was the US losing too much influence?

Obviously because they lost influence.
If you had not noted it, after the Brexit charade (which, btw, demostrate why it is important that EU work as a single entity) EU started to move faster (not always in the correct direction in my opinion) exactly because the United States' Trojan horse in the EU, the UK, was out of the decision process and cannot block things anymore.

[–] plyth@feddit.org 1 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

no decision could be made since nothing will be good for everyone.

In a good faith situation, people make compromises. The EU is first of all a trade union. If it is maliciously blocked, just wait it out.

To protect against bad faith actors, only the rule has to be changed that one other complice country can block a voting power reduction. That should be part of the discussion.

but they did not used the weight of EU, which is bigger than the sum of the single states.

If the US does control the EU, and China and Russia know whatever it is, then it is smaller.

EU started to move faster ... United States’ Trojan horse in the EU, the UK, was out of the decision process and cannot block things anymore.

Germany is also a Trojan horse, and I have read comments about other countries, too.

I don't know the inner workings, I can't even say anything about the speedup, but the UK preferred free markets whereas France prefers state companies. That must have been an endless source for conflicts. I wouldn't ascribe the entire slowdown to US influence.

I think the Hungary situation was milked to establish the need for a reform. As I wrote at the start, without veto powers, we get closer to the USE. For the USE, that means more power but for the citizens it means less power.

[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 2 points 4 hours ago

I don’t know the inner workings, I can’t even say anything about the speedup, but the UK preferred free markets whereas France prefers state companies. That must have been an endless source for conflicts. I wouldn’t ascribe the entire slowdown to US influence.

The problem was that UK had a special status, it was a full member but they had a list of exceptions (like the currency, they still used the pound) and in the EU they always were considered the frontend for the USA. It was the UK that blocked some reforms that passed the moment the UK was out.

I think the Hungary situation was milked to establish the need for a reform. As I wrote at the start, without veto powers, we get closer to the USE. For the USE, that means more power but for the citizens it means less power.

Maybe, but unanimity was not manageable anymore, too many states with too many different interests. It is not realistic that a small state could hold back EU just because, the decision process became longer and longer and any decision is watered down.

And I'd like to see something like USE, in my opinion EU is still not integrated enough but I understand that a lot of people need to start to think in a very different way.