Europe
Europe community on dbzer0. Intended to be a place to discuss European news, politics, or just general topics from a European perspective. Since this is on dbzer0 expect the community to lean more leftist-anarchist but a wide range of views are accepted here (within reason).
Rules:
1. No Bigotry or Hate Speech
Any forms of Homophobia, Transphobia, Queerphobia, Racism, or Ableism will be met with swift and harsh action and will not be tolerated here whatsoever. Bigots will be banned immediately on-sight. This includes apologia of it.
Trying to be politely or intellectually bigoted i.e. "Just asking questions" won't be tolerated.
2. No Zionism
Any forms of Zionism or Zionist rhetoric will not be tolerated here, this includes Zionist apologia, accusations of antisemitism towards anti-Zionists, or blatant denial or downplaying of the genocide towards Palestinians. Any attempt to uphold or prop up the IHRA definition of antisemitism, will be treated as Zionism.
Anyone engaging in Pro-Zionist sentiment or apologia will be actioned in accordance with its severity.
Apologizing for Germany's compelled speech laws in any way here is also considered a violation as these laws uphold the IHRA definition of antisemitism. You will be banned if you apologize for Germany's speech laws. No questions asked.
Note: Trying to find loopholes or whataboutery to see what is or isn't genocide denial or Zionism will be treated as a violation of this rule. Don't test us.
3. Stay Civil
Please maintain civil discourse in the community. Do not engage in arguments with others, name-calling, or insults. Note that calling out bigotry or Zionism is not considered an insult. In heated arguments users are encouraged to or even required to disengage failure to do so will result in mod action.
4. No Misinformation
Spreading of misinformation intentionally in this community is unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Spreading misinformation hurts the credibility of the community and can mislead people sometimes in dangerous ways. Users who intentionally post misinformation as articles, comment answers, or in attempt to win arguments will be actioned swiftly.
Note: This includes Russian and Chinese propaganda. Users with a history of such posting will be banned on sight.
5. No AI Content
Please do not post articles or content primarily created using generative AI. Generative AI content may contain misinformation or be lower quality and thus is discouraged. Posts and comments featuring it will be removed. However this community does not allow or tolerate Anti-AI trolling or hostility and users who engage in such behavior will be actioned for it, additionally Anti-AI trolling violates Rule 3 and often Rule 4 so it is generally unacceptable already.
Note: Rules 1 & 2 may be subject to preemptive mod action due to their severity, and they apply to a user's entire post history. Not just this community.
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Nope. That's based on what the ACTUAL conspirators are admitting to conspiring to do.
It's not realistically possible to accurately quantify the proportions like that (unless "based on vibes"), but regardless, you seem extremely adamant about dismissing contextually crucial perversions of self rule by foreign enemies in order to prevent that the domestic ones are the sole significant culprits and could just as easily go it alone.
That's not only misguided, it's also actively harmful to any efforts to know the problem so that we have a better chance of dealing with it.
Now you're just trying to build a strawman out of accurate observations ๐
Sure. If you ignore where all the funding, organizing, and strategies for cooperation (between otherwise nationalist fascists from different countries, no less), that would be a reasonable application of the Razor.
Given ample evidence to the contrary, though, it would need complicated reasoning to refute and as such fails the test of the good Mr William of Ockham, Billy to his friends.
So.. You don't consider world leaders publicly bragging about funding and organizing a fascist takeover attempt of several countries' governments "extraordinary"?
If so, there's probably little if anything else that would persuade you.
Anti-zionism โ antisemitism. Don't be like the spokespeople of a fascist apartheid regime.
I'm not saying "the Jews are doing it" based on bigotry. I'm saying "the fascist apartheid regime is doing a lot of it" based on an overwhelming preponderance of evidence.
Clearly not, in your case.
Agreed. Which is why I wasn't doing anything even remotely resembling that.
Starting to wonder if the elders of Zion crap is a talking point made up by Zionists to make the idea of being anti-Zionist seem equivalent to antisemitic conspiracy theories. Zionists are more than happy promoting antisemitic narratives to promote their goals so it wouldn't surprise me.
I was about to dismiss the notion based on the Protocols hoax predating zionism, but having looked it up, the hoax is from 1903 and the origins of zionism are in the late 1800s. Hmm ๐ค
Speculation aside, though, there's no doubt that Hasbarists LOVE taking even the slightest similarity to actual antisemitic tropes in anti-zionist messaging and conflating the hell out of that shit to further their gaslighting.
Of course, it doesn't help that a lot of the most disgusting antisemitic tropes are about nefarious rich Jews conspiring to exert undue influence and a lot of the activities of the likes of AIPAC and ADL are doing almost 1:1 real life versions of those things.
Helps to remember that there's a lot more Christian zionists than Jewish ones in total and in the US in particular, though.
It feels really convenient for them. Maybe that's a conspiracy theory in and of itself.
I would argue that even for antisemitic conspiracy theories that form organically, that they would work to keep them alive so they can point to them to deflect criticism of Zionism and claim it's all antisemitism.
I don't know what you think you're going to achieve here, but dismissing anti-Zionism as antisemitic conspiriacies isn't going to get you anything good here, and we will not hesitate to ban people who parrot pro-Zionist rhetoric. Accusations of antisemitism here aren't going to shut people down, they will just get you banned.
Israel provides funding and support to many leaders, these leaders have openly admitted this. Denying that only serves to benefit them. It is a form of Zionist apologia.
Sayonara you worthless Zionist apologist.