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I miss him (lemmy.nz)
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[-] mechoman444@lemmy.world 76 points 1 week ago
  1. He is one of the best presidents in US history.

  2. The orange Mongoose is one of the worst if not the worst.

  3. Obama bombed the ever loving shit out of the middle east.

  4. Obama deported more people from the US than Trump at the moment.

I would do almost anything to go back to the Obama era, seriously. But I don't want anyone thinking I believe Obama was some kind of saint. He wasn't. He simply did things better than Trump.

His immigration policy made more sense. He deported people who actually needed to be deported without resorting to modern-day concentration camps. He used military force in the Middle East, but generally for far more defensible reasons. He was a significantly better diplomat, and he certainly handled Iran better than Trump ever did, without throwing tantrums and shitting himself on national television.

[-] almost_genocide@lemmy.world -1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

If Obama and Democratic senators had done their jobs ICE wouldn't exist and warrantless surveillance infrastructure would have been dismantled. Furthermore, if they had cared about the obvious economic trajectory of average Americans they would have passed something like medicare for all, invested in transportation infrastructure and done more to address housing costs.

But they didn't. And Trump is a direct result of that.

[-] mechoman444@lemmy.world -1 points 5 days ago

So literally everything you said is completely wrong in every possible way.

Presidents don't have magical powers that let them change laws on a whim. Even with the orange man's constant abuse of executive-order authority, those orders can still be blocked by the courts and constrained by Congress and other governing bodies.

What do you even mean? Obama should have done this, and he should have done that, and if only they had done this, then Trump wouldn't have been elected. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Hindsight is 20/20.

[-] almost_genocide@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

Is your reading comprehension that poor?

Obama and Democratic senators

[-] mechoman444@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

Oooo! Shit, man! Of course! Democratic senators! How could I have been so stupid and ignorant?!

That’s the one thing I overlooked! There were Democratic senators that Obama could have directed to do his bidding, but he just… didn’t. And now we have Trump!

Jesus Christ, man. If we’d had you around during the Obama administration, you could’ve told him: “Just throw out some Poké Balls with those Democratic senators! It’s super effective!”

God, you’re so right. I’m the idiot here. Not you!

[-] almost_genocide@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Is English your second language bud?

I am blaming Obama and 2009-2011 Democratic senators. Are you for real right now?

[-] mechoman444@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Yes, I know you were blaming Obama and Democratic senators. And you're an idiot. I don't know how to explain that to you.

Which is why I was sarcastic in the first place. Because if you're making statements this objectively dumb there's really no engaging with you except for making fun of you.

Which I am. Because you're stupid.

[-] almost_genocide@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I don’t know how to explain that to you.

Because between the two of us you're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about.

Are you anti-surveillance like Flock? Anti-ICE? Obama wasn't. The 2009-2011 Democratic senators weren't. They enabled the very tools being used by fascists against the American people today. What aren't you getting here?

[-] mechoman444@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Ok. I'll try and explain it to you. It probably won't help, but I'll try anyway.

You made sweeping, declarative statements based on generalized conclusions. Your argument essentially boils down to: if Obama and this faceless, nameless, amorphous blob of people you call Democratic senators had done everything differently, specifically, everything the way you think they should have, then everything would be different, and Trump wouldn't be president.

Well, yes. Obviously. If everything had happened exactly the way you wanted it to, we'd be living in a utopia. Or, at least, your version of one.

But that's not how history works. You don't get to look backward at an outcome and simply declare, "If this had happened instead, everything would have been fine." That's counterfactual reasoning without actually establishing the causal chain. You would need to demonstrate that the alternative action was realistically available, that it would have produced the desired result, and that there weren't other variables that would have changed the outcome.

Take the period after World War I. You could argue that if the victorious powers had pursued a different economic and political settlement with Germany, reduced the severity of the reparations burden, and avoided some of the conditions that contributed to political instability, Hitler's rise might have been less likely. You could even argue that different decisions might have changed the trajectory of European history entirely.

And, sure, in hindsight, governments could have made different choices. Maybe World War II could have been avoided. Maybe the Holocaust could have been prevented.

But that's not what happened.

That's precisely why statements like "If Obama and the Democratic senators had done X during Obama's administration, Trump wouldn't be president" are so intellectually lazy. You're taking an enormously complicated historical and political process and reducing it to a hypothetical in which the people you dislike made the correct decisions according to your preferred outcome. That's not an explanation of what actually happened. It's hindsight dressed up as analysis.

Moreover, if you think Democrats and Republicans are fundamentally different in the ways that actually matter to the underlying structure of American politics, then you've completely lost the plot.

Obviously, there are meaningful differences between the parties, and those differences can have very real consequences. But both parties operate within the same political and economic system, both depend heavily on wealthy donors and corporate interests, and both have repeatedly failed to address structural problems that should have been addressed decades ago.

We still have an absurdly expensive and heavily privatized healthcare system. We have weak antitrust enforcement compared with what would be necessary to meaningfully challenge corporate concentration. We have no federal term limits for Congress, and we continue to allow members of Congress to participate in stock trading under rules that are far too permissive.

So my objection isn't that Democratic policies and Republican policies are literally identical. They obviously aren't. My objection is that, in this particular argument, you're pretending that the identity of the party in power, or a handful of supposedly correct decisions by Obama and Democratic senators, provides a simple explanation for an outcome that was the product of decades of political, economic, and social forces.

That's the part I disagree with.

You can construct an infinite number of alternate histories where everything would have turned out differently if people had simply made different decisions. That doesn't make those counterfactuals useful explanations of reality.

History happened the way it happened. The interesting question isn't "What should they have done if they knew exactly what we know now?" It's why did they make the decisions they actually made, what constraints were they operating under, and what structural forces produced the outcome we got?

That's a much more useful conversation than pretending the entire problem could have been avoided if Obama and some Democratic senators had just played the game correctly.

[-] lemmy_outta_here@lemmy.world 59 points 1 week ago

What people really miss is not Obama. People miss competence, decency, and sanity.

[-] tmyakal@infosec.pub 23 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

As a part of the famous Democratic circular firing squad, I was extremely critical of most of Obama's administration. But I voted for him twice, and I'd take him over Trump in a heartbeat.

Edit: autocorrect-induced typo

[-] jtrek@startrek.website 9 points 1 week ago

That's a difference between left and right. Conservatives value in-group loyalty more than truth or consistency. They fall in line. Feels good in their brain.

This is an effective strategy, at least unless whatever objective reality they're rejecting catches up with them.

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

No no, as a Brit, genuinely, I miss Obama. (As well as all the competence, decency and sanity.)

[-] Lemmynated@lemmy.zip -3 points 1 week ago

We want our American imperialists to be competent not an embarrassment.

[-] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Well like... Yes? A rational actor is a great deal more managable than an irrational one. As many things as Obama did that are unforgivable, you can at least say it was unlikely he would have kamakazi'd the entire global economy over an slighted ego like trump is doing with Iran.

Edit: Really sorry for the necro, boost had a moment and apparently just posted this?

[-] explodicle@sh.itjust.works -2 points 1 week ago

people who actually needed to be deported

Do you mean extradited?

[-] mechoman444@lemmy.world 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

No. Why would I mean extradited?

He deported people who had illegally entered the country, people who were removable under U.S. immigration law because they had committed certain crimes in the United States, and, in some cases, people with criminal histories or warrants in other countries who were unlawfully present in the U.S.

There may have been individual extradition cases during the Obama administration, but extradition is a separate legal process from deportation. It isn't really an immigration policy so much as a matter of international criminal justice and cooperation between governments.

this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2026
592 points (97.1% liked)

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