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[-] Objection@lemmy.ml 3 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

You don’t need to invent a “parasitic pedophile class” or some grand conspiracy to make that argument.

How on earth is it a "grand conspiracy" to label the class known for extracting wealth from workers to fund child sex parties 'the parasitic pedophile class?' That's just a straightforward description of the group of people who in practice have concentrations of wealth.

I genuinely don't even know what part of this is supposed to be conspiratorial. Are they not parasitic? Are they not pedophiles? Are they not a class?

You can absolutely argue that collective economic power would provide greater protection for vulnerable people. But that’s an argument for socialism. It isn’t the original definition or purpose of socialism.

Hard disagree. Workers are vulnerable people, who, without organization, are taken advantage of by the ruling class. "What force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one? But the union makes us strong!" And vulnerable people are workers, many of them anyway. Socialism is not and never has been just about some stereotypical image of an able-bodied white guy in a hardhat and fuck everybody else. In order to achieve working class solidarity, especially on an international scale, it is absolutely 100% necessary to overcome barriers such as race, gender etc, which means supporting and accommodating all sorts of vulnerable people.

[-] mechoman444@lemmy.world -1 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

I'm going to say something that will probably be unpopular and will likely get downvoted, but that's okay. The truth doesn't become less true because people don't like hearing it.

I believe there is a serious possibility that child abuse and exploitation exist within some of the highest levels of American society, including among politicians and the ultra-wealthy. There are enough allegations, documented cases, associations, and circumstantial evidence surrounding various individuals and networks that I believe these matters warrant serious investigation. If evidence establishes that crimes were committed, I have no problem whatsoever with arrests, prosecutions, and convictions, regardless of how wealthy or politically powerful the people involved are.

But there is an important distinction between saying something deserves investigation and saying that something has been proven.

At this point, there is an enormous amount of speculation, conjecture, allegations, and circumstantial evidence surrounding this subject. What we do not have is sufficient publicly established evidence to definitively claim that there is some organized "pedophilic class" controlling or operating within the upper echelons of American society. People have absolutely committed horrific crimes against children. Criminal networks can and have existed. Powerful people can and have abused their positions. None of that, however, automatically proves the much broader claim.

And that's an uncomfortable distinction, but it matters. If someone has committed a crime, investigate them, charge them when the evidence supports it, put them on trial, and let the evidence be tested in court. A person's wealth, political affiliation, social connections, or position should not place them above the law. But neither should suspicion, association, or circumstantial evidence be treated as a substitute for proof beyond what the evidence can actually establish.

So I'm deliberately trying to be precise here. I am not defending anyone accused of child abuse. I am not minimizing the existence of child abuse. I am not making excuses for politicians, billionaires, conservatives, liberals, MAGA supporters, or anyone else. I condemn child abuse regardless of who commits it, and I believe anyone who commits these crimes should be prosecuted and punished under the law.

I also don't support right-wing conservatism or MAGA, but that is beside the point. Please don't twist my position into something I didn't say simply because my position doesn't fit neatly into a particular political narrative. I am saying that allegations should be investigated, credible evidence should be pursued, and proven crimes should be prosecuted. At the same time, I am not going to turn allegations and circumstantial evidence into established facts simply because they support a conclusion I already find plausible.

As for the second part of your statement, I'll give you the same answer I give everyone else: socialism is an economic system in which the means of production are socially or collectively owned, with worker ownership or control being one important form of socialist organization. It is not synonymous with social programs.

A government providing public healthcare, libraries, police, fire departments, public education, social insurance, or other services does not automatically make those programs "socialist." Governments of many different economic systems provide public programs. The fact that something benefits society does not make it socialism.

Socialism also isn't simply a philosophy about "protecting workers." Worker protection can exist under capitalism, socialism, mixed economies, and other systems. The defining question is fundamentally about ownership and control of productive assets.

You can hard disagree with whatever you want it doesn't make it any less true.

[-] Objection@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

But there is an important distinction between saying something deserves investigation and saying that something has been proven.

There is also an important distinction between what can be proven in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt (against the best lawyers money can buy), and what is likely to be true. There's absolutely no reason why we have to hold all criticism to the former standard, and it's completely unreasonable to do so.

It is not synonymous with social programs.

The fact that something benefits society does not make it socialism.

100% agreed, I never said anything remotely like that.

Socialism also isn’t simply a philosophy about “protecting workers.”

Agreed, however, protecting workers is a necessary (but not sufficient) condition of socialism. The goal of worker ownership is fundamentally driven by a desire to advance the interests of workers, which includes worker protection.

You can hard disagree with whatever you want it doesn’t make it any less true.

Yeah, it's not the fact that I disagree, but the arguments I made to support that disagreement that show your position is wrong.

this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2026
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