114
submitted 2 days ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] peacepath@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

Black market suffer too much after loosing hand on canabis?

Which prohibition has ever been good for health?

[-] Jason2357@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 day ago

Also the other history notr: we literally did win against cigarettes with public health interventions.

Then we defunded public health and for some reason aslo took a decade to start treating vaping as smoking.

[-] StabbingSky@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Treating vaping like smoking is wrong, though. They are nothing alike besides containing nicotine.

And you can't even compare that because the forms of nicotine are different. The one used in modern vapes is only about 12% as bioavailable as the nicotine in tobacco.

Vaping is 95% less harmful, but there's a gigantic misinformation campaign against it. Most studies that show that vaping produces harmful substances either had methodology that was designed to produce harmful results by using the devices in ways humans wouldn't, or the scientific reporting on the study grossly misrepresented the findings to make vapes sound scary.

[-] twopi@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 hours ago

You underestimated the risk factor of the delivery method.

Cigarettes are not only cancerous because of the content but also the fact that you're breathing in burnt material.

Nicotine has a threshold for addiction. A lot of vapes go over it. And the companies complain when they are forced to produce nonaddictive products.

More disinformation comes from the vaping industry. How has the finacial incentive to suppress vaping? Even tobacco companies own vape products so they are not being hurt.

[-] peacepath@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Public health interventions can do far more than banning! The reason it tooks so long to treat vaping as smoking is the far lesser danger of vaping for health (if you put aside the US studies).

[-] lastlybutfirstly@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago

This has nothing to do with health. We could cure death and everyone would still think smoking is the deadliest thing ever. I realized this 20 years ago while reading a book on nano technology that posited that we could cure death someday with it.

And I thought "That'd be great. Then I can smoke and not worry." But then immediately I thought, "That can't be right!" And I spent 5 minutes trying to figure out how smoking would be bad for me in a scenario where it's impossible for it to be bad for me. When I present this puzzle to others, they do the same thing.

[-] twopi@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

This question can be rephrased like this: how can shooting myself in the head be bad for me in a world where shooting myself in the head is impossible to be bad for me? We could cure death and people will still say shooting yourself in the head is the deadliest thing ever.

So therefore, trying to prevent people shooting themselves in the head is not about health.

If nothing can kill you (even shooting yourself), then can anything (including shooting yourself) be dangerous?

I present this puzzle to others, they do the same thing.

Think of it this way, if we had death curing nanobots, does this mean you can survive a nuclear explosion? Will you become immortal?

The nanobots the book was talking about are nanobots that stop the tendency for the body to decay as we age. They are not meant to make us immortal.

Think of them like very advanced prosthetics.

Having the ability for prosthetic arms and legs does not mean that arms and legs (both natural and prosthetics) is impossible to be chopped off. Having heart pacers does not mean that poor diet and low exercise is impossible to cause heart disease.

People with poor health need more medical intervention and earlier than people with good health. The existence of inventions does not change risk factors.

We have a real life example. Oxygen is a very reactive molecule, it is unstable in large amounts and corrodes everything else, yet we need it to survive. Something that is bad for other things is required by us. The reverse is also true. CO2 is harmful for us but good for plants.

Hope that actually clears up your thought process and helps you stop believing in none sense.

[-] lastlybutfirstly@lemmy.world 0 points 9 hours ago

I'm not believing in nonsense. When they cure death and we're in our 200s, I'll be out smoking cigars, enjoying hot sex orgies, and playing Counter Strike for real while you'll be at home worrying about your health and freaking out that second hand smoke will kill you at the age of 915,278 instead of the average of 995,562.

[-] twopi@lemmy.ca 1 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

I was being purposely absurd about shooting people in the face to prove a point.

But since you would actually play counterstrike IRL if these nanobots were invented, I'd gladly take the opposing side to your team.

When (not if) I win, I'll emphatically take over those sex parties, but leave the cigars and smoke (not really my thing).

You really think technology will make you immortal. I bet my mortal life that you didn't take a STEM degree. You really are a delusional joke.

[-] lastlybutfirstly@lemmy.world 0 points 9 hours ago

You really think technology will make you immortal. I bet my mortal life that you didn’t take a STEM degree. You really are a delusional joke.

It's a hypothetical and it's making you hopping mad, jumping all around it. It's a moral issue.

[-] twopi@lemmy.ca 1 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

You know what? Your right, when someone's mad it is a moral issue. When your face gets shot, and you mad about it, it is not a question of fact but a moral question.

Shooting a gun is one thing, the trajectory of the bullet is another thing.

Smoking is not just you. Because of the public effects of smoking, I will be affected and I should be asked to consent. If you see my consent or lack thereof to you smoking as a moral issue than I see your non consent to your face being shot as a moral issue to be corrected.

[-] peacepath@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Even without die of it, I would still prefer to avoid cancer. And smoking clearly rise the risk to have one.

Also, a cure we may have someday, is just a call to found research, not a real promise. Don't build anything on such.

[-] lastlybutfirstly@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Sure, but if we can't imagine a scenario where it's okay to smoke, then it's clearly a moral issue and nothing else.

[-] twopi@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

There is a way for smoking to be OK, you'd have to change biology and chemistry laws first, not legal laws. Good luck with that.

It is impossible in this universe for smoking to be neutral in your health. In another universe, sure but not this one. It is not a moral issue but one of which universe we live in. A universe where smoking is non consequential or one where it is bad. We live in the universe where smoking is bad.

This is not a moral question but a question of which reality we find ourselves in.

[-] peacepath@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Cancer is an health issue. Without health consequences at all, smoking would not be a problem.

I don't see how moral could be related to smoking...

[-] ximtor@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 day ago

Well there is also the part that it stinks like shit

[-] lastlybutfirstly@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Because when you have a scenario where if you get cancer all you do is take a pill full of nanobots and you're cured, it's working kind of hard to find a problem with that. Admit it. It feels icky and wrong to say "It's okay to smoke". There's a part of you that feels guilty for writing what you just wrote. What if a child reads that and starts smoking because of what you said?

[-] twopi@lemmy.ca 1 points 9 hours ago

Admit it. It feels icky and wrong to say "It's okay to shoot yourself in the head". There's a part of you that feels guilty for writing what you just wrote. What if a child reads that and starts shooting themselves in the head because of what you said?

"It's okay to eat rotten food that has mold growth on" "It's okay to stop breathing air" "It's okay to tan using a UVC lamp" It's okay to jump off a skyscraper"

The only reason why you consider one question (smoking) to be a moral issue instead of all questions is because you want to smoke. You're not saying jumping off skyscrapers is a moral issue, let along the infinite other questions not listed here.

[-] lastlybutfirstly@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

Yes. I do want to smoke! If we cured death, would it be okay?

[-] twopi@lemmy.ca 1 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

If something being OK or not is a moral issue. If you say I'm OK with a shorter life because I want to smoke. That is a perfectly OK statement. Acknowleding tradeoffs is logical denying them is not.

Some people are OK with a shorter life so they jump off a skyscraper. They understand the cause and effect of their actions and still do the action. You should take similar wholeistic picture in your decision making.

[-] peacepath@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

I have absolutely no guilt at saying that if there were no health problem, smoking would be totally ok ; and even sometimes recommanded, since the benefice/risk balance would become positive. Yet for now, smoking bring health issue and it is therefore better for your health that you avoid smoking. But should you smoke, it would not be wrong, but dangerous (for you).

[-] lastlybutfirstly@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

You and I may be standing outside Plato’s Cave, but most people are stuck inside. Imagine if we got control of the Star Trek franchise and made it canon that smoking has zero health effects.

Riker goes to sick bay and Dr. Crusher scans him. She has a Marlboro red dangling from the side of her mouth. She says, “You have stage four lung cancer.”

She injects him with the hypospray. “There. It’ll be gone by tomorrow. Get back to work.”

Riker goes to the bridge. Geordi is smoking a Marlboro Light 100. There’s an ashtray on the console. Data is smoking his pipe, of course. Troi sits. She elegantly and languidly sucks on a long, glamorous Eve 120 cigarette. Picard comes on to the bridge with a huge Churchill cigar clenched between his teeth. Worf turns around and he’s got an even bigger cigar, some Klingon brand, blood red and fluted or some other kind of weird alien design.

You and I see no problem. But everybody else would be saying, “Dear Lord! This is a family show! Do you want this to be part of their image?!”

[-] mHtt@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago

meanwhile mom and dad just got home from a shift at the bomb and munitions production factory in butt fuck no where.

fuck false morality

[-] peacepath@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Soda and fast food not being associated with health problems in the USA makes that you can find such things with this products in many american productions. It makes the characters closer to the public, and so it may even be something americans like. And the brands pay to show their products. Europeans, often find it too much, because we have health sensibilisation against such.

Old productions used quite a lot of tabaco products, also as integrated advertising. In the USA and in Europe. Until it became famous it was bad for health... Prestigious sports such as Formula 1, kept advertising tabaco until advertising for cigarettes got banned. And it was banned by a political decision for public health, not because of a public reaction against it.

Health is the core of the attacks on tabaco ; if a treatment could cure health problems in 24h, tabaco sellers would soon make it a product "cool" again and make all the adds they can to make sure most people smoke their 40 cigarettes a day. That would include paying some show to dare scene as you describe. And the public would soon get used to it.

this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2026
114 points (98.3% liked)

Canada

12553 readers
971 users here now

What's going on Canada?



Related Communities


🍁 Meta


🗺️ Provinces / Territories


🏙️ Cities / Local Communities

Sorted alphabetically by city name.


🏒 Sports

Baseball

Basketball

Curling

Hockey

Soccer


💻 Schools / Universities

Sorted by province, then by total full-time enrolment.


💵 Finance, Shopping, Sales


🗣️ Politics


🍁 Social / Culture


🌐 Other Relevant Communities


Rules

  1. Keep the original title when submitting an article. You can put your own commentary in the body of the post or in the comment section.

  2. Provide sources when making a claim. Do your research or google it doesn't cut it. The one making the claim is responsible for backing it.

Reminder that the rules for lemmy.ca also apply here. See the sidebar on the homepage: lemmy.ca


founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS