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Absolutely not!
(lemmy.nz)
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this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2026
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I apologize for that! Now that I read you again, yes your wording was pretty clear, I misunderstood. As you can see by my poor expression, English is not my mother tongue, and I often misunderstand some nuances like that. Sorry again!
No it's still apply. I'm not Catholic myself, but I'll use again Catholic texts, as they are a very hierarchical denomination it's easier as they have authoritative texts. In Gaudium et Spes, a document from the last council (so one of the most authoritative texts of this church), it is written:
One can then be atheist not because they never heard of Christianity, but because the Christians themselves taught by their words or their acts something wrong about the Church. And I mean, I'm a Christian, and I can't reproach people to hate the Church (and by Church here I mean the Christian one, not specifically the Catholic one) when I see how far from the Gospel it often is! I didn't heard what Francis said about atheism, so I have no opinion on the matter.
For Islam, as it's a more horizontal faith, it will be harder to find clear proofs, but from discussions I had with Muslims I know, it's more or less the same thing. They said to me that Islam is badly spoken about in our Western society, so even if they know what Islam is and have mosques around them, they still are seen as ignorant.
That's a fun story, I never heard it, thanks!
If I were this missionary, I’d answer something like this: outside evangelicalism again, the Christian faith is only secondarily about salvation. If you read the Gospels, for example, Jesus almost never speaks about the afterlife. And when he does, he generally isn’t actually teaching about the afterlife; rather, he uses it as a metaphor to teach us how to live a full life here and now. The same is true of the Old Testament.
Paul emphasizes the subject more, but his point is something like: "This question is settled: you are saved by grace, so stop worrying about it and do good instead!" The problem is that his definition of “doing good” comes from a man living 2000 years ago, and some people (within evangelicalism, but unfortunately not only there this time) nowadays focus on the details of his definition of a good life rather than on the spirit of his teaching.
Your god condones slavery. You can pontificate all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that your religion is vile.
It doesn't. Parts of the Bible do, but I do not believe that the Bible is the inherent word of God. Only fundamentalists believe that.
How convenient for you that you get to pick and choose which parts you like.
Even though your own lord and savior said that he didn't come to abolish the old law but to fulfill it, and that not a single bit of that old law will change until the end of the earth (paraphrasing Matthew 5:17).
You don't get to pick and choose what that "old law" was, it's literally the entire first part of your holy book. And it explicitly condones slavery (among a litany of other heinous shit).
It's not cherrypicking, it's interpretation. I do not arbitrarily choose, I study the context, and use the Love of God as an hermeneutical key, to cite Martin Luther.
I answered about this text here.
I have no interest in your pathetic apologetics.
I hope that one day you're able to escape the abusive relationship you've chosen to have with a non-existent entity. It's so very freeing.
I feel free, thank you. I hope than one day, you'll learn that it makes more happy to actually think that there's more than one legitimate way to see the world.
I see the world in more ways than you could ever imagine, and that began as soon as I left behind the shackles of religion and stopped putting faith in things that have never been (literally cannot be) proved.
You refuse to put faith in things that cannot be proved? Sad if true. But it's probably not.
I like to believe in true things. Call me crazy.
We have developed this thing called "the scientific method" that allows us to understand things without the need for "faith."
And it's likely the reason that you didn't die as an infant.
Only provable things can be true?
When we're talking about extraordinary claims, then they require extraordinary evidence.
Or in this case, literally any evidence whatsoever.
Take it a step further. If I'm going to base my morals and entire lifestyle on said extraordinary claims, then yes I'm going to need proof.
So you'll never marry? A marriage change your life more than religion change most religious people's life. And there's no way to proof that your fiancé(e) loves you. There are signs, words, but they could all be lies.
And you know… it's not because you're a religious person that you should “base [your] morals and entire lifestyle” on it.
The fuck are you even talking about? Really grasping at straws.
You said that you needed proofs to make life-altering choices. I gave you an example of a life-altering choice that couldn't be based on a proof of any kind: love can't be measured, weighted, proved, scientifically analyzed. And yet, we base our life choices on our belief that it exists in a person or not. And it's just one example.
The scientific method is wonderful, one of the great creations of the human mind. But it's a tool. A tool that can be used to answer some questions, but not all questions. To try to solve existential questions with the scientific method is like to try to cut a steak with a hammer. It won't work, not because the hammer is a bad tool (it's a very good tool), just not the right one for the task.
Now, religion may not be for you, and that's OK. It's great even! Not everyone need to be religious. What I don't understand is why everyone should necessarily have the same world understanding. Religious people are not dumb, atheist people aren't evil, and vice-versa. Theism and atheism are just two different legitimate ways to see the world. We can learn from each others instead of transforming everything into a cultural war…
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/05/29/187009384/Pope-Francis-Even-Atheists-Can-Be-Redeemed
I'll give a bit more detail there. also looks like I was way off on the year. First off I'll admit, majority of my knowledge of Christianity is based on American versions. Of which I gotta admit, American believers are a different animal than European ones. IE hence American Catholics are basically considering our current president more authoritative than the pope in spiritual matters. But even so from what I've seen of say actual bishops debating with Hitchens etc... It still seems to me that at least a fairly significant portion even at an international level. This ain't a Jubalee fact check episode so obviously we shouldn't do it as, oh if 49.9% believe belief = salvation, then you are right and if 50.1% believe it than I'm right. I'm just saying it's not an insignificant portion. My point is someone who believes belief = salvation, and also marries someone who doesn't believe. Is either not as convinced of their belief as they claim, or they are expecting their spouse to change, maybe thinking that being around them but not preaching, is it's own witnessing strategy (IE let them see the light in your life),
Yes, I agree with you on the last part. I'm happily married with someone who doesn't believe, and I couldn't live with the idea that she could be damned just for that.