this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2023
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I would still rather be killed and eaten than slowly tortured for weeks by someone making money off torture videos.
Neither needs to happen
A lot of things that happen in this world don't need to happen.
Wouldn't you rather just live and not be tortured?
It just frustrates me a little when discussion of a specific issue gets immediately derailed into discussion of another related issue.
Even now youtube has a ton of torture-adjacent videos about hurt or distressed baby monkeys, catering to the same group that the torture rings cater to.
Immediately ignoring that in favour of the usual vegan talking points feels suboptimal, to me. There's nothing actually wrong with paying specific attention to specific subjects sometimes.
It's apparently always the wrong time to bring up what happens to "food" animals.
When it's on post about animal cruelty we're derailing and taking away from the specific case.
When it's on any other post it's irrelevant and preachy.
So when should we speak up for the billions of animals getting needlessly abused and killed?
I don't personally have a problem with vegans making points about vegan ethical beliefs in general. It's just the derailing away and equivalence fallacy I dislike - ironically I think it trivialises both issues.
Any post about it outside vegan communities gets downvoted to hell.
I'm glad you don't personally have a problem with people against animal cruelty.
Reminding people that they are paying for horrific animal abuse doesn't take away from other cases of abuse.
So maybe take the hint
No, I won't stop speaking up against billions of animals getting needlessly abused and killed just because the abusers don't wanna hear it.
Right, just don't keep being surprised 'kts always the wrong time to bring it up'
And 'im always down voted outside of our communities'
If you refuse to learn when it's appropriate to talk about it, you're going to be ostracized.
I can care deeply about how many kids are sexually abused by priests, but if I bring it every time I see someone I know, Im a creepy fucking individual. If someone's talking about sexual abuse, it might be the time to mention it, it might not. If someone's talking about how THEY were sexually abused, and I rant about how many kids are abused by priests, I'm an insensitive fucking individual.
You're bringing up an extremely common and accepted practice of farmed meat, that THE MAJORITY of people take part of. If you conflate that with a specific news story of a literal Nazi torturing an animal for the sexual thrill or whatever, you're crossing so many fucking layers of acceptability, you just sound like an extremist. Which diminishes your point, the point of the article, and the perception of the communities you represent.
Have some fucking tact. And a little self awareness.
The majority of people participating in something horrible is exactly why we need to speak up against it every opportunity...
BILLIONS of animals are getting needlessly abused and killed, don't you think that's a bit more important than 'tact'?
If your lack of tact prevents people from listening to you then fucking YES ABSOLUTELY
Look, most people aren't buying meat to fantasize about the murder of animals like youre implying. The fact you're saying that, weither you intended to or not, is putting the people you're trying to convince on the other side of an us vs them. That's not productive and youre just fucking annoying.
Most people buy meat because it's cheap. Its cheaper than plants because the meat industry is subsidized by the government. Its subsidized by the government because it's the easiest way to get reasonably balanced nutrition to the most amount of people.
If you really want less people eating meat, target those aspects.Not the end user trying to feed their family.
If you want real change, and aren't just trying to pick fights on the internet, wouldn't you rather be affective instead of just fucking annoying everyone, where it's always the wrong time, where youre downvoted everywhere outside of your life minded communities?
Seriously it's a different fight but read up on Daryl Davis. He's a black guy who gets people to leave the KKK. Do you think him picking fights with them would help? Trying to argue how stupid and hateful it is for them to hate black people? Pinning them in an us vs them?
He gets them to leave by befriending them. Showing them theres another way WITHOUT FORCING THEIR HAND OR CONVINCING THEM THEYRE SHITE FOR THE WAY THEY WERE RAISED. that's literally the least productive thing you can be doing.
I'm not implying or saying that people buy meat because they want to be cruel, but that doesn't change the fact that it is cruel.
A plant based diet should be cheaper for most people, vegetables, rice and beans aren't expensive, meat is.
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study
It's incredibly easy to get reasonably balanced nutrition with a plant based diet, eat varied and take B12, done.
I'm not trying to pick fights, I'm just informing people, you picking a fight with me isn't my fault.
Dude you know damn well that even if I go "uwu, please consider not eating meat once a week :3" I'd still get destroyed, it's not about tone, people just don't like hearing it, which, again, isn't a good reason to stop talking about it.
I'm not forcing anything on anyone or convincing people they are shit, my original comment just reminded people that the animals they ate also are living beings.
You're not intending to say people buy meat to be cruel. You absolutely definitely said it.
Look fried, I have no skin in this fight. I was trying to help you but if I'm just wasting my breath I'll move on.
People aren't dismissing you because you're talking about veganism. They're dismissing you because you're an ineffective communicator. I'm not discussing that with you I'm trying to help you sway more people to your cause. Its not my cause so I don't personally give a fuck.
If you feel getting nutrition through plant based meals is easy, good. Focus on that. Most people don't, that's an easier point to sway people than convincing them the way they and their parent and their grandparents and their parents grandparents were cruel heartless humans torturing animals for fun. The video you started this conversation in is about a Nazi torturing an animal for fun. You equated that to everyone eating meat. Now I'm against you. You aren't going to convince me to join your cause that way.
In a way that makes you in the in group and people outside of it against you.
Because that's also ineffective communication. Convince people why they'd want to be vegan, not why you want them to be vegan.
If you feel its cheaper to eat a plant based diet, good. Focus on that. Most people don't. I definitely don't. How much is a gallon of plant based milk? How much is cow milk? I'm not genuinely asking you cow milk is significantly cheaper. at least in my area you might be in fucking Albania or something im not familiar with. I doubt it. Its a significantly harder life to be vegan and poor.
Either way I feel my effort is falling on deaf ears so l8r sk8er I got better shit to do.
I totally agree.
While there is an argument that eating meat is bad, we are talking about literally torturing animals without any purpose other than entertainment. This is a different level of awful.
Put it in a discussion community, ask them, try to brainstorm a new normal. This is news, of course people won't be very open to listen to ancillary discussion topics.