this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
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The death toll means around ten percent of the kibbutz's population was wiped out

The bodies of more than 100 people were discovered by volunteers in a single, small Israeli village Monday — including those of children — believed to have been killed by Hamas militants caught on camera.

The remains were discovered in Be'eri, or Bari, a kibbutz in southern Israel close to Gaza. It's one of the villages Hamas militants invaded on Saturday as they began their attack on the country.

"Today the volunteers entered Kibbutz Bari and it is impossible to explain in words the terrible sights - some were adults, some were children. These are horrors that cannot be grasped in the mind or soul," a spokesperson for Zaka search and rescue told IDF radio.

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[–] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

No, the Gaza residents don't deserve collective punishment, and that is what Hamas wants. They want Israel to overreact and clamp down. They want videos of their dead children and women across all media. This is part of the tried and true strategy of big guy vs little guy conflicts, and guess what it NEVER WORKS... for the big guy.

How did 9/11 work out for Osama Bin Laden? Better then he could have ever even dreamed of.

You can't kill your way out of this kind of conflict. The only ways out are A) complete genocide or B) political resolutions and bringing them to the table.

Neither Bibi, nor Hamas, want option B, and they're both hoping that eventually option A will work out in their favor.

[–] Pasta4u@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You just contradict yourself. You can't kill your way out of this kind of conflict. Then you say you can complete genocide. So you can kill your way out of this.

That is likely what they are going to do. Starve out and destroy Gaza so everyone leaves. Then enter it and take it over and build another wall woth even more guns and keep pushing new walls further back to make the balstics Hamas use less effective.

[–] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This conflict is Israel vs Hamas, at least on paper. So even if Israel ramps up strikes without care of civilian death, that is still different then an actual intentional and systemic genocide.

So no, Israel cannot kill it's way out of this current conflict.

[–] Pasta4u@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Of course they can and they are doing it. They are going to destroy Gaza block by block until everyone has fled or is killed and there is nothing but rubble to go back too. Then Isreal will just take over the land and move in.

[–] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I understand that is ultimate dream of Bibi, Ben-Gvir, and a disturbingly large number of genocidal zealots that support them, but no, that is not going to be what happens with this specific conflict at this time.

Eventually, they will withdraw from Gaza and leave the millions of Palestinians left to starve and suffer in the rubble.

Let's say, hypothetically, that Hamas was actually somehow destroyed, every leader killed, and 200k fighters dead. What kind of organization do you think would rise up to replace it?

[–] Pasta4u@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Looks like they are doing a pretty good job if leveling Gaza right now and don't appear to be stopping anytime soon

[–] wanderingmagus@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Option A won't work out for them if they and their buddies cease existing and the strip is radioactive glass. Same with their buddies Hezbollah. And Israel, regardless of strategic ambiguity, almost certainly has the capability to pull it off.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lol. Pretending like nuking them is an option is the most sadistic and stupid thing I've seen. They'd be nuking themselves. Radiation doesn't stay in place, and also presumably they want to control that area too. These takes make everyone a little dumber.

[–] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Nah bro. I'm pretty sure radioactive fallout respects territorial integrity and has a strict lines on maps approach to how it gets distributed post detonation.

So as long as Israel gives its nukes clear orders not to float over and contaminate Israeli territory, they should be good.

Yep, just a stern talking to and those nukes will take care of the rest.

Oh, and he's not pretending to not understand, he really doesn't because he's really, really, and I mean seriously, stupid.

[–] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Setting aside your own genocidal fantasies, which are beyond fucked up, I think you should pick up a map of the region and look at it. Like really look at it.

And if, within 10 secs, you don't understand just how incredibly dumb your idea is, I think you should immediately get a vasectomy, because that would mean you're way way way too stupid to ever be allowed to reproduce.

Please, for the sake of the world, snip snip.

[–] wanderingmagus@lemmy.world -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I am a member of the United States Navy SSBN force, trained to set condition 1SQ for Strategic Launch of thermonuclear warheads if and when called upon to do so without hesitation. Each missile is capable of carrying in excess of ten multiple independent reentry vehicles, and each warhead is capable of at least ten times the power of Hiroshima.

What do you do for a living?

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wow. You probably shouldn't hold that position if you actually do. Do you know what a nuke is? Do you know what happens to radioactive material after the explosion?

when called upon to do so without hesitation.

We have a few great heroes in our history who saved the world by hesitating when that call was made. If you think you shouldn't hesitate, you're bad for the position. You might be told that's what you're supposed to do, but it isn't. You need to ensure the call is legitimate for legitimate reasons before you doom humanity.

People like you worry me. You're so confident in some bullshit that you think it means anything at all. You clearly have no idea of the repercussions of a single nuclear attack is, let alone what happens if there's a response.

[–] wanderingmagus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know the yield of a Trident II D5 missile's REVs, yes. I know the entire sequence from receipt of an EAM to reentry and detonation. I've read the CJCS instructions and all other governing documentation.

It is not my job or that of any sailor or officer on an SSBN to determine the legitimacy of the reason, only that the EAM is in fact valid and authentic in accordance with procedure and governing documentation. To think otherwise is naive, and got at least one officer kicked off the ship.

My job is simple. When I'm told to man battle stations missile for Strategic Launch, I man battle stations missile for Strategic Launch. When I am ordered to set condition 1SQ by the CO and XO, I set condition 1SQ in accordance with procedure and governing documentation as quickly as possible while remaining within procedural guidance.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 year ago

I know the yield of a Trident II D5 missile's REVs, yes. I know the entire sequence from receipt of an EAM to reentry and detonation. I've read the CJCS instructions and all other governing documentation.

Then you're aware of what would happen upon detonation in Gaza. You shouldn't be dumb enough to wish to use it on them. You really shouldn't be dumb enough to wish to use it ever, but I know your type.

These are two of the world's greatest heroes. We're all here today likely because they disobeyed orders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Arkhipov

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

I know you're supposed to obey any lawful order, but a few have not and saved many for it. There will almost certainly be consequences for it, but any good person would still at least consider the risk to self to save many.

It is not my job or that of any sailor or officer on an SSBN to determine the legitimacy of the reason, only that the EAM is in fact valid and authentic in accordance with procedure and governing documentation. To think otherwise is naive, and got at least one officer kicked off the ship.

The end of this I agree with. You will be kicked off the ship. However, it is your duty to consider if an order is lawful. If you're asked to kill unarmed civilians, for example, then that's an unlawful order and can be disobeyed. However, it seems you aren't in a direct line for the call being made to the launch, so it doesn't really matter.

[–] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yep, you definitely should snip snip. Please, for the sake of world's gene pool.