this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2023
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Perhaps, but if you are developing a tech that can save lives, doesn't it make sense to put that out in more cars faster?
Tesla does this with cameras whether you pay for FSD or not. It can also detect if you're near an object and slam on gas instead of brake, it will cancel that out. These are options you can turn off if you don't want them.
I'm saying- imagine if the car has L2 self driving, and the driver had that feature turned off. The human was driving the car. The human didn't react quickly enough to prevent hitting your loved one, but the computer would have.
Most of the conversation around FSD type tech revolves around what happens when it does something wrong that the human would have done right. But as the tech improves, we will get to the point where the tech makes fewer mistakes than the human. And then this conversation reverses- rather than 'why did the human let the machine do something bad' it becomes 'why did the machine let the human do something bad'.
Why? Tesla's FSD beta L2 is great. It's not perfect, but it does a very good job for most parts of driving on surface streets.
This is valid. I think the name 'full self driving' is problematic somewhat. I think it will get to the point of actually being fully self driving, and I think it will get there soon (next year or two). But they've been using that term for several years now and especially the first few versions of 'FSD' were anything but. And before they started with driver monitoring, there were a bunch of people who bought 'FSD' and trusted it a lot more than they should have.
That's not how their pricing works. The safety features are always there. The hardware is always there. It's just a function of what software you get. And if you don't buy FSD when you buy the car, you can buy it later and it will be unlocked over the air.
What you get is extra functionality. There is no 'my car ran over a little kid on a bike because I didn't pay for the extra safety package'. It's 'my car won't drive itself because I didn't pay for that, I just get a smart cruise control'.
Price yes, and difficulty integrating different data sets. On their higher end cars they've re-introduced a high resolution radar unit. Haven't see much on how that's being used though.
The basic answer is they can get to where we need with cameras alone because our software is better than others. For any other automaker that doesn't have Tesla's AI systems, LiDAR is important.
This already happens whether the computer is driving or not. Lots of people don't understand Teslas and think that if you buy one it'll drive you into a brick wall and then catch on fire while you're locked inside. Bad journalists will always put out bad journalism. That's not a reason to stop tech progress tho.
Right now FSD isn't a main selling point for most drivers. I'd argue that what might kill others is not that Tesla's system is cheaper, but that it works better and more of the time. Ford and GM both have a self driving system, but it only works on certain highways that have been mapped with centimeter-level LiDAR ahead of time. Tesla has a system they're trying to make general purpose, so it can drive on any road. So if the Tesla system takes you driveway-to-driveway and the competition takes you onramp-to-offramp, the Tesla system is more flexible and thus more valuable regardless of the purchase price.
I agree standards should apply, that's why Tesla isn't L3+ certified even though on the highway I really think it's ready for it.
Totally agree, that's why I say it is a double-edged sword. The theory being is that it is more acceptable to ship bugs because they can be rectified much more quickly.
Thanks for clarifying that, not something I was aware of. Sounds very pragmatic.
I misunderstood the original scenario, and while it sounds like it shouldn't be possible at current (given the auto braking you mentioned above), I understand the meaning. I agree with you here, I don't think the human is better and my issue isn't that I think a human would necessarily react better (and certainly in L2 the problem is a human almost never will).
My main concern was about an accident with camera-only that could have been avoided with additional sensors. I had heard additional sensors had been suggested at Tesla, but vetoed. I knew that Musk was confident cameras can do it all and had said as much. My concern was that his bullishness was reason for this policy, however hearing that Tesla are investigating other sensors dispels that theory.
Agreed. I don't follow self-driving cars or Tesla/Musk closely so I'm just as ill-informed. The original concern was if Tesla's policy of using only cameras reduces their self-driving capability compared to non camera-only competition, even performing well above a human, it could affect the perception of self-driving vehicles.
Yes, I agree. Aside from Waymo, which doesn't look to be coming to consumers any time soon, I'm not sure who else is close to Tesla on that problem. I would have expected to hear more from the major manufacturers but it seems while some have been certified L3, it is only in certain conditions and locations.