this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2023
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"Never buy a new car" - the argument being they depreciate quickly, and newer used models are "just as good".
Nope, got burned twice in a row and wasted more money than if I'd bought a new one immediately.
Every car I've owned has been used. Some are better than others. In general, I've had really good luck and have bought some great cars, but some have been money pits. You get better at spotting a good buy, but it's still possible to get a bad one, it does come down do luck.
Just buy a Honda or Toyota, and all you have to do is change the oil.
And brake pads please change your brake pads occasionally
and brake fluid. And Transmission fluid. And refresh your suspension once it's a goner.
You can definitely take a Toyota to like 250k miles w/o changing transmission fluid. I think they call it a lifetime fluid, as in it’s meant to last the whole designed-for lifespan of the car.
But if you want it running it’s best, for as long as possible, then of course, change those fluids too.
one of the biggest lies from manufacturers, tbh
They've had to roll back that "lifetime fluid" claim for some cars before due to early transmission failures. It's not a lot of money to change it out.
Any transmission will take damage from not changing out the fluid, you're just reducing the lifespan of it, and that's exactly what they want.
Nor is it particularly difficult, ended up doing my own a few years back when I was still in school and penny pinching.
Found a place that rented out a lift and use of their tools for like $25 for an hour. Bought some fluid, watched some videos ahead of time, and got it done in like ~30 minutes.
You def should change transmission fluid, I was just saying that these vehicles are engineered well enough to hold up for quite a while with little to no care.
Fair enough, but my thing is for anyone else reading this that doesn't know about cars, the takeaway shouldn't be "you can probably take a Toyota to 250k without changing the fluid so don't sweat it and save your pennies"
it should be "change that fluid when you are able to (search for the right intervals for your car on forums and such, but the right answer isn't "forever", even if that's what the manufacturer says). It's possible it might last until 250k if it's a Toyota and you're lucky; but you never really know, and if you don't you're only guaranteeing you won't be able to rely on that car much sooner than if you did"
I've replaced the engine in an '06 Civic Si after the timing chain lifter tensioner failed, the timing skipped, and the valves kissed the pistons.
It also ended up having some pretty gnarly electrical issues.
law of large numbers, maybe
I know just enough about engines for “valves kissed the pistons” to make me laugh in horror.
That's why I take it to the next step and never buy a car altogether. Miss me woth that shit I'll just live in a cool city, and either bike or walk wherever I want.
Username cheks out
I made the mistake of moving to Kansas City with a Hyundai Elantra. Thankfully I live near downtown, so it wasn’t difficult to adjust to living without a car after it was stolen.
Yeah, my girlfriend recently needed a new car since her ancient Ford Fiesta finally kicked the bucket. She decided to limit her budget solidly to shitbox territory because she'd just had some major expenses and didn't want to owe someone money.
I offered to lend her some money to help her get better offers. She refused – and ended up buying a car that immediately needed a transmission rebuild that cost as much as the car itself. For which I lent her some of the money.
By Grabthar's hammer, what a savings!
what shitbox did she buy?
A 2007 Opel Agila that might've been a decent car four owners ago. But seriously, her price limit was 2500 € and she got the car for a bit over 2000; it's hardly a surprise that she didn't exactly get premium quality.
Well, once all repairs are factored in the total cost is closer to 4500, which could've bought her a much nicer car. Or at least a much healthier one.
Opel was at least as big of a mistake, imho
I’ve seen quite serviceable Toyotas and Hondas in that price range not too long before Covid. When did this all happen? I know post Covid used car prices have been absolutely insane much of the time
She just got the car back last week so very recently.
I agree. I've also gotten shafted by used cars (7th generation Honda Civics are all utter pieces of garbage). I don't take depreciation into account on a new car because I plan on driving it until it's uneconomical to repair, which means it'll be worthless when I sell it regardless.
My parents have only purchased one used car, and it was a nearly new car from someone they knew and trusted. The other 4 cars they've bought in the past 40 years have been new. They keep them until they're old and basically worthless.
Yes, in light of keeping the new vehicle for its entire "life" the depreciation argument falls fairly flat. It is more meant for the "average" person who keeps a car for three years or thereabouts. I cannot imagine investing that much money flippantly. I take the time to research what I want and mean to keep my auto for a long time. That said, I prefer a solid used car over new because it has depreciated to a more fair value. I've done both and not been displeased with either choice. Except for one BMW...
But even if you drive the car into the ground there is still an associated cost per year as a result of buying the vehicle.
I've rented a few new cars and I'm just really not a fan of the all lack of physical buttons and controls. The smart settings like lane control, smart cruise control, the engine turning off when stopped, and notifying me with an alert when I've driven to many hours are extremely annoying.
Totally agree. It's always a risk buying used. You have to be savvy on what to look for, research if there are common catastrophic problems, and hope the vehicle was maintained properly (any car needs more than just oil changes, including Toyota and Honda) and was not abused.
Generally you're taking less of a risk buying new because of a good warranty and known history, but be sure to get a reliable car not something that will give lots of problems over its life. Plenty of data on which cars are best in that regard. Some makers are better than others on average but reliability can vary by model and model year, even.
Yes, cars depreciate in terms of resale value. That's why we keep ours for 10-15 years. By then it doesn't matter.
I used to stick to that rule and get a sensible mid sized Toyota Corolla or Honda Accord that’s a few years old as needed. But in 2013 (the last time I needed to get a new car) the cost savings were really low compared to new. I think the used market was particularly hot so you’d save less that 10% of the cost, so I ended up getting my 1st and only (so far) brand new car ever.
Always take a vehicle to a mechanic for an inspection before buying it.
You've been sold a bill of goods, or whoever tried to tell you this doesn't understand leasing.
ex-lease cars are just as good as new, come with a new car warranty, and don't come with the absurd depreciation.
look at cars that where released 3 years ago, that's the used cars we're talking about not a 1990s civic or whatever.
Poor people buy new cars, rich people lease them, smart people buy ex-lease cars.
And even poorer people just buy $1000 beaters and deal with it because we literally can't afford anything better.
I am a member of the 10mm socket + Hammer club too, but if I had money I know how not to blow it
This is great advice for anyone looking to buy used and not new. Don’t buy someone else’s problems from Craigslist. If you can, buy something from a reputable source that includes a warranty.
Yep. NRMA inspections for the win. There has got to be a similar service in the US.
They literally aren’t. If the car is going to last 200k miles then getting a car with 36k miles on it already means you’re that much closer to it failing.
It’s also going to be that much closer to needing more expensive maintenance to be done.
A three year old car will often have a lesser feature set than the current year’s models. Stepping up to the higher trim that had those features 3 years ago can negate the cost savings of buying used in the first place.
Ex-lease cars are frequently well-maintained and driven responsibly, but that doesn’t mean they’re “as good as new.”
Do you mean “comes with what’s left of the original warranty?” Because that’s generally true but doesn’t mean you benefit from it the same amount. If it has a 5 year, 60k mile warranty (Mitsubishi) and you only get the warranty for 2 years and 24k miles, that’s not the same.
With CPO cars you also get the CPO warranty but that doesn’t usually make the total warranty you get as good or better than what you would have gotten new.
Kia and Lexus both have very competitive CPO warranty programs. Kia has a 1 year / 12k miles bumper-to-bumper warranty. Lexus extends their 4 year/50k miles new car warranty by 2 years/unlimited miles after your purchase date or after the original warranty expired, whichever happens first. If you buy a CPO Lexus at the 2 year mark then you’ll get a full warranty out of it, but that’s not true for most other manufacturers.
And I don’t know of a single manufacturer that completely refreshes their warranty term for CPO cars.
The cars that make the most sense to buy used have the least depreciation, though. For example, looking at CPO Toyota RAV4s, for the ones that aren’t former rentals/didn’t have accidents/multiple owners, the 3+ year old models are very comparable in price, like 26k for a RAV4 with nearly 50k miles vs 30k new, or 27-28k for one with under 30k miles.
If the lifespan of the car for you is 10 years then a 3 year old car is 30% less valuable - so a 13% discount is hardly a bargain. You’d need to keep it for 20 years - until it was 23 years old - for your 13% savings to be more valuable than the extra lifespan of the car.
You also frequently get a worse interest rate on CPO cars than on new.
There are many times when it makes sense to buy a CPO vehicle but also many where it makes more sense to buy new. Do the math in your specific case rather than acting like there’s a one size fits all solution.
They literally aren’t. If the car is going to last 200k miles then getting a car with 36k miles on it already means you’re that much closer to it failing.
It’s also going to be that much closer to needing more expensive maintenance to be done.
A three year old car will often have a lesser feature set than the current year’s models. Stepping up to the higher trim that had those features 3 years ago can negate the cost savings of buying used in the first place.
Ex-lease cars are frequently well-maintained and driven responsibly, but that doesn’t mean they’re “as good as new.”
Do you mean “comes with what’s left of the original warranty?” Because that’s generally true but doesn’t mean you benefit from it the same amount. If it has a 5 year, 60k mile warranty (Mitsubishi) and you only get the warranty for 2 years and 24k miles, that’s not the same.
With CPO cars you also get the CPO warranty but that doesn’t usually make the total warranty you get as good or better than what you would have gotten new.
Kia and Lexus both have very competitive CPO warranty programs. Kia has a 1 year / 12k miles bumper-to-bumper warranty. Lexus extends their 4 year/50k miles new car warranty by 2 years/unlimited miles after your purchase date or after the original warranty expired, whichever happens first. If you buy a CPO Lexus at the 2 year mark then you’ll get a full warranty out of it, but that’s not true for most other manufacturers.
And I don’t know of a single manufacturer that completely refreshes their warranty term for CPO cars.
The cars that make the most sense to buy used have the least depreciation, though. For example, looking at CPO Toyota RAV4s, for the ones that aren’t former rentals/didn’t have accidents/multiple owners, the 3+ year old models are very comparable in price, like 26k for a RAV4 with nearly 50k miles vs 30k new, or 27-28k for one with under 30k miles.
If the lifespan of the car for you is 10 years then a 3 year old car is 30% less valuable - so a 13% discount is hardly a bargain. You’d need to keep it for 20 years - until it was 23 years old - for your 13% savings to be more valuable than the extra lifespan of the car.
You also frequently get a worse interest rate on CPO cars than on new.
There are many times when it makes sense to buy a CPO vehicle but also many where it makes more sense to buy new. Do the math in your specific case rather than acting like there’s a one size fits all solution.
Next time buy a Subaru and have the guy meet you at a dealership. They do a free inspection for you
Ironically that's exactly what I did.
Dealership inspection was crap didn't catch obvious issues, and 2. I live in a country where Subaru is only a minor player so not a large service network
Oof that sucks. I’m sorry.
I raised the possibility of buying a Subaru with my local mechanic and he described me as "brave". He mentioned that the ridiculously high prices for fixing up my Merc (like £600 for a hosepipe) would be peanuts compared to Subaru repairs, and that's assuming he could even get the parts. So I got another Volvo.
weird. i love my subie and it's had basically no problems in 4 years, even though it was already 8 or so when i got it. i made sure to get the year where they'd fixed the gaskets, though.
Having watched so many subarus break down (belonged to neighbours and friends, and I was the person called to rescue them) some of which were brand new, buy any vehicle other than the rubbish sold with a subaru logo on it. Subaru breaks down on dirt roads constantly. Those things can only cope with flat perfect tarmac without hills in a city where public transport is available for emergencies.
A few days ago my brother saw a car on the side of the road at an odd angle, and thought it was for sale. It was not, it was yet another subaru broken down waiting for the flatbed. They just can't hack it.
I've never understood the people who insist on only buying used, particularly when they have the money for new. Why spend $5-15k on a used beater if you could get a new car for $30k that won't have mystery problems, and if they do then it's covered by warranty? I've only ever had real problems in my used cars. I don't think I ever had a used that made it more than like 4 years before dying on me. Meanwhile, I've had my 2016 RAV4 since January 2016, and I've only had to deal with a few things that just wear out naturally over time like tires and brake pads. Nearly 8 years with this car so far, and it's been a fucking dream. My used 2002 Hyundai XG350L however was a fucking nightmare to the point that I've sworn off Kia-Hyundai entirely. Which is a shame because the Ioniq whatever EV seems like a pretty solid product, but I feel the need to do extensive research before getting too excited because of how badly Hyundai burned me.
In my country if you buy used from a dealer you get 1 year warranty by law. Makes it pretty safe, especially if you have the car checked by s trustworthy mechanic (finding one is the hard part!)
I can't get a car I would like for just £24K. The cars I buy 2nd hand for £5K would have cost north of £40K when they were new. Sure I could get some shitty half litre shoebox on wheels for £24K that needs three weeks' written notice for acceleration to 60mph but I'd absolutely hate it. Plus when the engine goes boom replacing the whole car is a lot easier to stomach when it only cost 5K as opposed to 40K.
Weeks written notice :-). They are all over the show.
I'm just some random who knows nothing about cars. What kind of cars are you buying? Legitimately curious!
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