this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2023
593 points (97.9% liked)

News

23367 readers
2787 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Donald Trump has said that he will not become a dictator if he becomes US president again except "on day one", after warnings from Democrats and some Republicans that the US was in danger of becoming an autocracy if he wins the 2024 election. Fuck, well at least he's honest on this statement

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] vitamin@infosec.pub 95 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (7 children)

Has there ever been a dictator who relinquished power after "fixing" things? Yeah guys, I'm going to need some extra judicial powers and have the military become my personal army, but it's just temporary, I swear.

[–] DaveDavesen@feddit.de 51 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Yes, the original roman ones. This is the origin of the word. They were appointed for emergencies with a lot of power.

They all gave up their position after a while except for Caesar. When Caesar was appointed as a lifelong dictator, he was shortly after assassinated by most members of the senate. But the turmoil led to the Roman Empire not being "democratic" anyway.

[–] Taako_Tuesday@lemmy.ca 27 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Slight correction, he wasn't assassinated by most of the senate. There were about 60 conspirators out of 200-300, and only a dozen or so actually participated in the assassination (and only 5 actually confirmed to have stabbed him while still alive). Regardless, it's still true that they came to that conclusion after Caesar was declared dictator for life and started taking away senate power

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago

Funny thing is apparently only one of the wounds was lethal, we were literally one dude getting sick off from Caesar just going Palps mode

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago

(and only 5 actually confirmed to have stabbed him while still alive)

It's medically pretty unlikely you can be stabbed 60 times and not die till the last guy gets his turn.

[–] HerrBeter@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, but he was rustled since they wanted to disband his legions and all that. Who wouldn't be

[–] Cannacheques@slrpnk.net 1 points 11 months ago

A general must always have brothers/sisters to carry upon his shoulders

[–] 100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Despite his relatively old age, [Cincinnatus] worked his own small farm until an invasion prompted his fellow citizens to call for his leadership. He came from his plough to assume complete control over the state but, upon achieving a swift victory in only 16 days, relinquished his power and its perquisites and returned to his farm.

[–] Daxtron2@startrek.website 13 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Anyone who wants power, shouldn't have it.

[–] Cannacheques@slrpnk.net 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

At least we can trust he will give himself a deadline to step down

[–] Gumus@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The heat death of the universe is technically a deadline, right?

[–] Cannacheques@slrpnk.net 1 points 11 months ago

If he goes down that's fine by me too, all I'm saying is that I am not that kinda guy and I don't care much either way

[–] Arbiter@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago
[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 15 points 11 months ago (3 children)

The original office of dictator as defined in the Roman Republic was exactly that,

It was literally the office of "we have tried literally everything else and still have a problem, you there, you seem like a not idiot person, you can do basically anything you want for the next six months or until you solve the problem, after that we'll make cool statues of you if you do a good job."

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 11 months ago

I'm so happy that a fellow history nerd came here and said it before I could.

[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Given how the reality can get modified over long periods of history, I have to wonder how much those old dictators stepping down were motivated by threats of stabbing if they didn't.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Well one of them was Cicero, who would have been VERY loudly indignant had there been such a threat,

Not because he intended to defy it, but because he'd be so personally insulted by any insinuation he'd be that kind of dirty politician.

[–] systemglitch@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 14 points 11 months ago (2 children)

No, he was just an extremely prolific writer and a far more prolific narcissist

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago

One of the benefits of writing about yourself, you've got an absolutely amazing subject who can do no wrong.

[–] systemglitch@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

That's fair :)

[–] jasondj@ttrpg.network 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Honestly it’d probably work better than our current system.

Just give one random guy carte blanche to run everything. Get immortalized if you do a good job. Get executed if you don’t.

And I’m sure lots of people would take it up, and think that they’d do a good job. And more than likely, they wouldn’t.

[–] tegs_terry@feddit.uk 12 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I've heard the term 'benevolent dictator' before, but it might be philosophical. It doesn't seem to me that anyone capable of assuming the role could remain benevolent long.

[–] Arbiter@lemm.ee 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] problematicPanther@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

"Better than Trump" is a pretty damned low bar though

[–] problematicPanther@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

I think if we had a trained monkey with a typewriter, it would do a better job than trump.

[–] tegs_terry@feddit.uk 2 points 11 months ago

If teleported in as is, I'm sure, but you gotta get there first.

[–] Cannacheques@slrpnk.net 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don't think dictatorships are meant to be long term anyway, but I would be careful who I would hand over any power to.

[–] tegs_terry@feddit.uk 1 points 11 months ago

Depends what you mean by 'meant'.

[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Cincinnatus is always the classical example, as a senator who was named dictator twice and in both cases relinquished his power as soon as the crisis was resolved.

What’s less often mentioned is that the second “crisis” was just a prominent plebeian undermining the prestige of the Senate by providing cheap grain to the poor during a famine—Cincinnatus presided over the plebeian’s extrajudicial murder, and it’s that as much as his subsequent resignation that made him an eternal hero to the Senate.

[–] PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago

To be fair until Augustus there was a particular taboo in Rome of coming off as kinglike, being one guy and making a point of stepping on the Senate's toes was a VERY fast way to get yourself killed, see also The Gracchi Brothers and Marius.

Romans hated anything to do with royal aspiration so much that one of their most sadistic pleasures was to watch the former royals of newly conquered lands be forced to march in the victory parade of the lead general of the conquest before being ritually strangled. It took being a literal child for the Roman public to hold back from gleefully jeering you for having been a monarch, nevermind being willing to ask for you to be spared from being killed.

Basically just imagine a several centuries long stretch of peak Robespierre paranoia about anything to do with potential plots on kingly aspirations and you can see why some guy deciding to take state business on himself, especially state business that can earn a lot of public support, would be seen as a dictatorship worthy crisis to the Roman Senate.

[–] jaybone@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

And we named a city after this guy?

[–] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] jasondj@ttrpg.network 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Washington was elected in 1788 and re-elected in 1792. However both were unanimous, unopposed, and done solely by the electoral college. Adams/Jefferson in 1796 was the first proper election, after Washington set the 2-term precedent and relinquished power. That precedent was maintained until FDR served four terms during the First World War sequel, which led to the drafting of the 22nd Amendment to the US constitution limiting presidents to two terms in 1947. It was ratified by 36 of the 48 states in 1951.

Also while trying to remember the dates I read Section IV of the 20th amendment. What the fuck is this word salad? Is this the original “Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like??”

The Congress may by law provide for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the House of Representatives may choose a President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them, and for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the Senate may choose a Vice President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them.

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 months ago

The Congress may by law provide for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the House of Representatives may choose a President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them, and for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the Senate may choose a Vice President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them.

Commas were expensive back then.

[–] Altofaltception@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] SulaymanF@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

He was facing heavy domestic and international pressure as well as sanctions on the country. He didn’t do it out of honor.