politics
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
view the rest of the comments
no. trump pulled out of Afghanistan, which is why it was a fucking shit show.
Why was it a shit show? It was one of the most successful pull-outs of all time.
They just packed up and left instead of trying prolong it with a bloody civil war between the American pedo police and the Taliban
https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/30/politics/state-deparment-afghanistan-withdrawal-report/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/30/us-afghanistan-war-military-pullout-report-biden-trump
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/biden-report-afghanistan-withdrawal-blames-trump-2023-04-06/
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf
From the last one:
Seriously... have you all forgotten what went down? Memories like goldfish.
Oh, lets take a look at articles detailing the equipment left behind:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/politics/afghan-weapons-left-behind/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/politics/afghan-weapons-left-behind/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/politics/afghan-weapons-left-behind/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/politics/afghan-weapons-left-behind/index.html
Oh... and if that's not enough for you, lets talk about the human cost of ~~packing up~~ just leaving:
https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/us-left-78000-afghan-allies-ngo-report-rcna18119
https://www.hudson.org/foreign-policy/helping-afghan-allies-america-left-behind-luke-coffey
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/29/1119973093/how-u-s-allies-view-the-country-a-year-after-its-withdraw-from-afghanistan
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/how-many-americans-and-allies-are-left-in-afghanistan/
oh, and our reputation on the world stage, because you know, we weren't the only western power in Afghansistan: https://www.npr.org/2022/08/29/1119973093/how-u-s-allies-view-the-country-a-year-after-its-withdraw-from-afghanistan
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/afghanistan/2021-09-02/american-credibility-after-afghanistan
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/afghanistan/2021-09-02/american-credibility-after-afghanistan
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/afghanistan/2021-09-02/american-credibility-after-afghanistan
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/afghanistan/2021-09-02/american-credibility-after-afghanistan
TL/DR: It was a shit show.
Yeah Trump did an amazing job GTFO'ing afghanistan instead of starting another useless proxy war.
As much as I hate Orange man, withdrawing from Afghanistan has to be the best thing he actually did. There are plenty of reasons to hate on him such as ruining abortion and trying to prevent any non-white person from existing in America, but Afghanistan withdrawal is not one of them.
This was fully Biden's fault by the way:
Trump had no choice, as the war was won by the Taliban in like a week's offensive.
No he didn't and no it wasn't.
you, uh, sure about that?
Trump signed the deal in feb of '20, and started the process rolling. Trump took it from 13k troops to 2.5k by the time Biden took office. Biden continued along the nominal plan largely because you can't just stop massive troop movements like that.
as for it being a shit show; we left behind ~350k rifles, there were helicopters (littlebirds, blackhawks,) drones (boeing scan eagles); over 50 AFVs- mostly M1117's; 60 mortars and artilery pieces;
Over a hundred civilians died during the withdrawal, and thousands of civillians who worked with the US (on the promise of being protected, no less,) were left behind on the tarmac.
You're right. It wasn't a shit show. that's far too generous. It was a giant, shitty clusterfuck.
"Biden continued along the nominal plan largely because you can’t just stop massive troop movements like that."
Yes you can. He had every opportunity to stop and reverse the withdrawal.
And that's your shit show? That's the cleanest withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2000 years. With the Afghan gov. collapsing within days, how clean do you think it possibly could have been?
He'd have to have sent troops back when he got into office. We weren't getting the interpreters out without controlling the ground ourselves.
That was politically and logistically unfeasible.
Look at the time span from Biden entering office and the withdrawal, then look at the time span from September 11, 2001 to the invasion of Afghanistan. Reversing the withdrawal months in advance was logistically well within the capabilities of the US military and would have been politically less risky since withdrawals are extremely hard to execute as well as the US military executed this one.
edit: Massive changes/reversals in military objectives are implausible on the scale of hours or even days, but making sudden changes, moving masses of men and material in a new direction to do a new thing on short notice is one of the abilities of a good military. The notion that the US military, a very good military, couldn't reverse itself when given months to do so isn't well thought out.
And what were we going to tell Pakistan? You realize the bulk of our supplies came by land through there?
What would the Afghan reaction be? Because at that point you lose credibility. They see it as a second invasion.
And yeah, what do you tell the American people who are severely war weary?
It was never about the military's internal ability. It was about the actual logistics chain and appearing to go back on a major deal in a county where that means people definitely start helping the terrorists because they lose faith in you ever leaving voluntarily.