this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2024
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A Boring Dystopia

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This case is quite similar with Disney+ case.

You press 'Agree', you lost the right to sue the company.

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[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 31 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Anarchists used to blow up corporate buildings for this shit when government failed to keep these sociopaths in line'

Corporations these days need more fear of behaving like this: Courts need to stop allowing this shit. Legislators need to ban these practices. Prosecutors need to sue these companies to force courts to rule on this bullshit.

[–] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 50 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Cyberpunk 2077 was on to something about Corpos. This is just evil.

Not Cyberpunk 2077, but cyberpunk - the genre of science fiction.

CDPR didn't invent it - it's been a thing for many decades.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk

[–] cordlesslamp@lemmy.today 8 points 1 day ago

Uber looked at Disney and thought "hmm yummy, get us some of those sweet backlashes".

[–] BadlyTimedLuck@lemmy.world 75 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

Ok I think this should finally bring to light how TOS should not be enforceable contracts. As

1- its common knowledge that the average person does not read TOS. Therefore, it should be unreasonable to expect the average consumer to have completely understood what they have agreed to, without any legal representation to clarify the contract

2 - TOS are written like legal jargin straight from the legal department. Unfortunately, the client base is either 10 year olds lying about their age, 80 year olds who barely understand what a TOS is, and the average consumer who was never presented with a contract, just a simple "Accept or Decline"

3 - If TOS is meant to be as enforceable as it is, then we need a new set of data laws / seperate justice system to actually regulate those TOS. From what I understand, real life laws still apply to contracts where both parties consented. Aka, even if you agreed to kill someone who wanted to die, murder is illegal.

I hope we can bring some real change instead of letting this go to the side too. I was hoping the Disney thing would be bigger than it was, but then again who's taking Disney to court and surviving? It's sad to think they can get away with this, and its sadder to know we're less valuable than the data we produce.

[–] crank0271@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago

"This comment is way too long."

presses Agree

[–] blubfisch@discuss.tchncs.de 32 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Fun fact: in Germany, anything "unexpected" they write in TOS is not legally binding, because everyone knows noone reads it.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 3 points 1 day ago

Also any clause like this would be thrown out as a violation of laws anyways. You cannot deny a party to seek damages for events completely unrelated to the scope of the contract. Especially not indefinitely into the future or for actions subject to criminal law.

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I actually loved how Larian wrote the ToS for Baldurs Gate 3. It’s written as if it is a warlock pact.

It’s the first time I have actually read a ToS in years.

[–] DillyDaily@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Heck half the time my screen reading software glitches out on ToS pages, so I just have to assume I'm selling my soul but hopefully not much else and click accept because it's not like I'm going to find someone to sit and read it out to me, that would take hours!

And yet for every other contract I have ever signed in my entire life, I have a legal right to ask for it in an accessible form before I sign it. As a visually impaired person, uber is present in my life.

I hated it, it was the most inaccessible app for such a purpose, and the drivers really did not understand I can't see what they see. I like just calling the depot, talking to a human, and booking a cab.... But you can't do that now either because when you call you wait on hold for 20 minutes while the automated message tells you about the taxi app.

So now unfortunately, uber is easier to book than a taxi, I don't know if the ToS in the taxi app has any harmful stuff about arbitration because again, I've never been able to get a screen reader to read out the ToS properly on any app!

I feel like such a boomer, but I am really feeling more and more isolated as every service Abdi connection I've built my life around is moving online into a digital visual space faster than the affordable assustive technology can keep up with.

I'm expected to read something on a screen when I physically can not, uber and similar apps, including the app my local state government brought in during covid that now holds much only transit ID to show transit staff I'm blind (to get l transport assistance at train stations) all do this.

Once you open the wallet section of the app, for fraud prevention they disabled third party screen readers from reading anything on the app.

I have to open my app, then ask the other person to look through my wallet for me to find the card because I can't, it's such a privacy violation.

[–] ADTJ@feddit.uk 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Companies really don't put much effort into making these readable or accessible.

Many websites I've used it's even a broken link, there's nothing to read but I'm expected to agree anyway.

The terms are usually extremely long and repetitive, they're not designed to be actually read by people.

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[–] Soup@lemmy.cafe 56 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (7 children)

Well, I won’t be using Uber any more. Right alongside anything produced by Disney.

Fuck both of them.

[–] PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 36 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (16 children)

Woman died because an employee at a Disney resort served her food with peanuts in it. Her widower tried to sue, because the woman had confirmed with the server that there would be no nuts, and the server assured them there wouldn’t be. So someone on the restaurant’s side fucked up. Pretty open and shut case of negligence.

Disney’s lawyers tried to get the lawsuit dismissed, by saying that the husband had agreed to binding arbitration in the Terms of Service when he signed up for a free two week Disney+ trial on his Xbox several years prior. He never actually paid for a subscription, and cancelled after the free trial. But Disney was saying that the binding arbitration clause was still in effect in perpetuity, even after the trial ended and he cancelled the service.

Disney quickly reversed course (and “allowed” the man to sue them) once they realized it was making headlines, because they didn’t want to deal with the bad PR. But if it hadn’t made headlines, Disney’s lawyers likely would have continued pushing for dismissal.

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[–] NastyNative@mander.xyz 2 points 1 day ago

This should be illegal, all these companies want to make money with 0 risk to them. Get em out of NJ!

[–] dubious@lemmy.world 97 points 3 days ago (4 children)

the problem here is obviously corporations running the world. the solution is obviously terrorizing them into submission. the government ain't gonna save you.

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[–] Juice@midwest.social 106 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I used to wonder what happened to kids who would always change the rules in the middle of a game like, "nuh uh nuh uh I have a shield around my whole body that blocks lasers," so that they never ever lose. I thought they just grew out of it but now I realize they all became corporate lawyers for tech companies

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[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 86 points 3 days ago (20 children)

Disney may have abandoned this strategy with their wrongful death suit, but they pioneered it for other shitty companies. Great. This is reality now.

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[–] ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org 179 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (11 children)

Forced arbitration is unjust and should be outlawed. It's only legal in 7 other countries: UK, Canada, Australia, Ireland, Saudi Arabia, China and India.

That's right: 4 countries that are essentially US lapdogs, two dictatorships and one that's on the fast track towards becoming one.

Also, you can totally see how America is so much better and totally different than China. The more I look at both, the less I can tell the difference.

But at least in the United States, there is hope.

[–] OhNoMoreLemmy@lemmy.ml 62 points 3 days ago (4 children)

It's not really legal in the UK. It's unenforceable on claims under 5k and for claims over 5k the courts will make a case by case decision if arbitration is appropriate.

https://www.herbertsmithfreehills.com/insights/reports/inside-arbitration/click-to-agree-technology-and-consumer-arbitration

However, lots of companies still add these bullshit clauses as a way to bully people out of seeing a lawyer.

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[–] outrageousmatter@lemmy.world 45 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I hope the state supreme court allows them to keep their right to a jury trial. It clearly states in our 7th amendment it is preserved for any case above $20 and that it will always be upheld. There is no alternative in the wording, it is so clearly written and if it is ignored I want to see all the judges bank account and donations because the constitution for jury trials are clearly written and cannot be told in any other way.

[–] Oxymoron@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Hey sorry I’m dumb I can’t work out if there is a way to msg you or another mod direct. So here you can only post new articles right? I was just wondering if you knew of any other spaces or whatever they’re called. Another place like this but where you can just post about a topic to start a discussion?

Cheeeeeers in advance

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 47 points 3 days ago (1 children)

what the fuck... Really? Again?

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[–] Krauerking@lemy.lol 43 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Human lives have been deemed valueless it seems. Only worth as much as they have already produced and nothing more.

Not by the average person mind you but by every person above that has reduced humanity to numbers and economic performance. Why care when the person can be replaced or the product they make reproduced through automation or cheaper labor elsewhere. People are just the cogs that are worth as much as they are currently valued at and it must be reduced to make those that feel worth more than the rest of us feel even more powerful and necessary.

We have forgotten the worth of human effort and lives not yet lived while some get distracted with hypotheticals of specific people or ones that don't yet exist.

Fuck this reality. Fuck the reduction of humanity because of the will of those that hate others. We need to deal with now and our idea of what matters.

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[–] Sylvartas@lemmy.world 35 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Inb4 a few decades down the line "Father blocked from suing Amazon after their death squads gunned down his entire family for sharing his prime video account, say they agreed to Amazon terms"

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[–] jaybone@lemmy.world 62 points 3 days ago (7 children)

This is fucked. But I have a question. Why does Uber need to bother relying on the daughter’s agreement with Uber Eats? Surely the parents as Uber ride share users already agreed to similar terms no? Is this their way of testing this in court to see how far they can push it and set a precedent?

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[–] TommySoda@lemmy.world 83 points 3 days ago (1 children)

And they'll keep getting away with it as long as corporations are treated better than actual people. And you know they put shit like this in the agreements because they know nobody reads them. And every time we get complacent or blame someone else, it only gets worse.

[–] ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org 62 points 3 days ago (1 children)

you know they put shit like this in the agreements because they know nobody reads them

That's only half of the problem: even if you carefully read what you agree to, if you refuse agreements that include a forced arbitration clause, you have no other choice because all companies foist it on you.

In other words, if you refuse forced arbitration, you essentially have to opt out of normal life, because there are no alternatives.

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[–] Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world 40 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Why does the law allow this? Where in from you can write whatever the fuck you want on a contract but it doesn't make it legal. If the shit in the contract is insane , a court would just refuse to enforce it

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[–] Mobiledecay@lemmy.world 15 points 2 days ago

Uber was taking notes from Disney.

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