this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2024
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[–] sudoer777@lemmy.ml 8 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

My $7000/mo medication has a bunch of "cost relief" programs so they can pretend that they give a shit about affordability, then when you actually try to use them they make you do like 20 phone calls over the span of several months until they finally let you enroll and when you do it only lasts for a short amount of time before they kick you off and you have to start the process all over again. I've had to miss multiple doses of the medication which is dangerous for my physical health because I don't have the money to pay for it and this process takes so fucking long.

Recently, they signed me up for some super shady thing where I pay for the medication upfront and then they pay me back after showing me the receipt. What they didn't tell me is that it has a limit for how much it will pay for, so I pay for the medication, and what a surprise, they rejected my claim and now I lost $5000 to the medication, which could have paid for a car or a semester of community college. Our healthcare system does a great job at making dying sound like a decent alternative to healthcare.

[–] Death@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago (2 children)

And when the patient turned out to be fine after the scan, the insurance company will try to blame that the doctors are lying so that the insurance company has to pay the hospital more It's like they thought that the doctors must be able to see through the patients' body as if they forgot that the reason for these equipments to exist in the first place is that because the doctors can't really be 100% sure about what's actual situation inside human body

[–] Snowclone@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

IThey can't even be sure after the MRI. Which again, proves your point. It took one MRI battery and one alert and skilled MRI tech to catch my brain cyst, THEN another whole set, I straight up spend a whole 8hr shift in an MRI machine, Then a TEAM of neurologists studied my custom hand made brain for MONTHS. THEN they had a really good set of educated guesses. Then they did the surgery, and only after they opened up my brain case did the actually see what in the hell was going on. Even after all that, my neurologists was like ''This is what we think is happening'', I asked what it would take to really know factually, he said an autopsy. He didn't recommend it. The point is, Doctors save lives with these scans, and nothing is certain. That's not a barrier to treatment, but no scans Is a barrier to treatment.

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[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

There's two sides to this coin. On the one end, you have insurance companies refusing to pay for anything because the modern industry is just six scams in a trench coat.

But on the other, you have doctor's offices where the physician literally leases an MRI machine to the tune of several million dollars and then has to run a certain number of patients through the scanner every year or lose money. That's because the MRI patent is held by GE and they can charge 10-100x markups on hardware that is fundamental to modern medicine.

Its the same with diabetes treatments. Insurance companies will try and refuse service or kick people off their policies if they are at risk. But then pharmacy companies will sell $3 of insulin for $75, then kickback a chunk of the balance to judicial/congressional bribes in order to guarantee the cash flow.

At some level, the only insurance companies that can survive in such a market are the ones that say "No!" to everything. The even-remotely-ethical firms just get fleeced by the for-profit industry until they get bought out or go bankrupt. That, or you're Medicare/Medicaid and you have an infinite wallet backstopped by the US Treasury. You don't care if you're paying multiples of whatever any other clinic anywhere else in the world would charge on an enormous population of poor and elderly patients, because you have an unlimited money cannon to mow it all down with.

[–] piecat@lemmy.world 10 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Very uninformed take, its almost laughable.

GE isn't the only one who makes MRIs. The other big players are Siemens, Philips, United, and to some extent Canon, Fujifoto, and Hitachi.

No, that's really how much it costs. The margin on MRI machines is terrible. I'd like to see you do it cheaper... "Just" build then supercool magnet for superconduction for 3T of homogenius magnetic field, build coils that handle KW of RF/gradients that can fit a human comfortably without artifacts, build the high power and precision circuitry to transmit and receive said RF, then control that equipment accurately and safely.

Super easy, off-the-shelf stuff.

Oh, and you can't use any ferrous parts, nor can your power supplies generate any noise.

That's like, senior design level stuff amirite

[–] piecat@lemmy.world 4 points 23 hours ago

The other big factor in cost is supply chain. Everything has to be tracable. So the supply chains have to do a lot of paperwork, inspection audits, since a defective part can kill someone.

[–] PresidentCamacho@lemm.ee 5 points 1 day ago

Six scams in a trench coat

Fucking poetry lol. I'm gonna use this.

[–] bitwaba@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

*cough* single payer fixes all this *cough*

Sorry, cough has been acting up. I should go see a doctor with a MRI about that...

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

cough single payer fixes all this cough

I'd go one further and say a National Health System fixes all this. Rather than paying a guy to pay a guy, you just have publicly financed clinics and hospitals. This is the traditional way of building up medical infrastructure, btw. City hospitals used to be the norm. We only entered the era of corporate consolidation when we sold off our public infrastructure for a song during the neoliberal turn of the 70s and 80s.

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[–] Snowclone@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Sure we could save lives by listening to doctors! But who will save our dollars, huh? The REAL value!

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 64 points 1 day ago (4 children)

So here is a question:

A medical professional examined the person IN PERSON and has a requirement.

In comes the insurance to tell you your doctor is wrong and that you're perfectly fine, your doctor is basically lying to you.

Question: how the fuck did any of this ever become legal?

[–] woodenskewer@lemmy.world 45 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Question: how the fuck did any of this ever become legal?

I would guess lobbying.

[–] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 12 points 1 day ago

Politics are dumb but very important.

[–] overcast5348@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (8 children)

You do need some checks and balances because what's to stop a hospital from profiting off the insurance companies by asking for a CT scan/whatever of every single patient just because they can.

I suppose we could have the government run the hospitals too. But noooooo, that's never going to work out because communism or something.

Maybe we should try effective altruism and accelerationism instead? Let's just hand over all our money to a few tech bros and then we can go beg them to pay for the scans. And if they don't pay for it, surely someone will come up with a cheaper technology to do the same. Yes, that'll definitely work.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You could just get rid of the for-profit medical industry entirely and then there would be no incentive to over treat patients.

[–] overcast5348@lemmy.world 1 points 22 hours ago

Yes. Hence the rest of my comment. I should've probably put a "/s" at the end. :)

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[–] Nougat@fedia.io 300 points 2 days ago (14 children)

Universal health care? I don't want government making my health care decisions! We have for-profit companies for that.

[–] The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world 194 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Death panels?

Believe it or not, that's also Frank.

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[–] secretfoxtail@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 day ago

tl;dr: It doesn't.

[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 43 points 1 day ago

Prior authorization should 100% be outlawed. It's either insurance adjusters practicing medicine without a license, or insurance doctors making diagnoses without examining a patient, both of which are unethical or illegal.

Though I think the real solution is a system where every time a prior authorization denial is overruled by the DOO or a court, the insurance company has to pay punitive damages of at least $200,000 to the patient.

[–] TommySalami@lemmy.world 131 points 2 days ago (10 children)

I work for a neurologist practice, and the amount I have to argue with insurance (and inevitably have to get the neurologist on the phone to directly request something for many) is insane. A good chunk of my job isn't providing care, but arguing with insurance that the care is necessary. These companies are actively delaying patient care, and try to blame the physician whenever possible.

Wildly infuriating, especially when the denials are worded along the lines of "we reviewed this, and don't consider it medically necessary". Motherfucker, a doctor said it was necessary and listed the clinical reasons why this test or procedure would be beneficial. Nothing has radicalized me for universal healthcare more than working in healthcare.

[–] BorgDrone@lemmy.one 35 points 2 days ago (4 children)

How is that even legal? How is someone who hasn’t examined the patient and isn’t their physician allowed to make treatment decisions? If they even have the necessary qualifications.

[–] skulblaka@sh.itjust.works 36 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Because of money!

Every time you see something that feels illegal but isn't, or that makes no sense in general, look for the money trail. There's always one, and it always leads to the explanation.

In this case, insurance companies have made such an absolute ass ton of money by killing off their customers that they have become a political entity. They now use their deep pockets to lobby politicians to keep their scam legal.

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[–] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 216 points 2 days ago (4 children)

i have a friend who's a transplant patient and has been taking the same meds for over 10 years post transplant-- every year it's a furious battle with insurance who, every year, decides the meds are no longer "medically necessary" and drops coverage for it. fucking helloooo these are anti-rejection pills, the textbook definition of "medically necessary."

it's not that insurance companies are stupid, it's that they're saving money on people dying when those people don't get what they needed to live.

insurance is the biggest fucking scam of all time

[–] voxthefox@lemmy.world 82 points 2 days ago

The insurance system does not work in the medical field, it would never work because insurance is for managing risks that are unknown, like a house flooding or your car getting hit in an intersection.

In medical "insurance" it is often dealing with known issues, and the insurance system is just not set up to deal with preventative care, annual check ups, mammograms, blood tests, or pre-existing conditions. It would be like trying to use car insurance to pay for an oil change, which is just as ridiculous as it sounds in your head.

That's exactly why the term "insurance" should be used when discussing a single payer system, it's not really insurance, it should be a collective action group that works together with the medical community to find a middle ground where hospitals can still exist and pay wages to their staff, the people can get the medical care they need without getting thrown into poverty for daring to get sick, and the government benefits from having a healthier population as a whole.

Too bad theres way too much money in the short term in keeping this all private, and having a sicker population, so we have decades of insurance company propaganda to work against, and a huge population of people that don't understand that by doing single payer health care your taxes would go up, but you also wouldn't be paying out the nose for medical insurance & medical care (because they don't cover anything). Also think of a world where your health care isn't beholden to your employment, all the different choices you'd make in your life.

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[–] Lightrider@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)
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[–] slumlordthanatos@lemmy.world 185 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Frank didn't even look at it. He just fed your claim into their computer and it spat out a rejection.

[–] Carrolade@lemmy.world 101 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Bold to assume he bothered to feed it to a computer when you can just reject without having to do that. Feeding something to a computer takes time, and time is money y'know.

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[–] sevan@lemmy.ca 49 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

Also, there's this common "feature":

Dr: "You need this procedure."

Me: "How much will it cost me?"

Office Manager: "I won't know until I bill your insurance and find out if it is covered."

Me: "What is the cash price I would pay you if it isn't covered by insurance."

Office Manager: "I have no idea."

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[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 42 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Last time my doctor had to bill my insurance he said he would just run it immediately, because apparently "routine denial" is a thing where they just automatically deny it because if you really need it the doctor will then have his office try again with more justifications. He hated this a lot, because it basically meant he had to just assume first denial for no real reason and then his staff had to take the time to almost always go back and resubmit. He said sometimes he would submit it with the info, it would be denied, and then he would resubmit it two more times and suddenly it would be approved.

Like seriously, what the fuck. But only does that hold up necessary care, it also makes doctors do more bureaucratic work and hire more staff, which, of course, makes medicine more expensive. Brilliant.

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[–] ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 79 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

Had my buddy over who brought over his incredibly questionable 30yo brother who shared some real incel levels of talk. He used my bathroom and asked if I wore tampons since a pack was visible. Like bro, I have a wife and a daughter.

Anyways, that guy works in health insurance!

I don't know how much decisions he can actually make. But that dude has a middle-school level education about sex ed and struggled to explain what a period is. And he is one of the barriers to approving/rejecting your health care.

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[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 29 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

American health insurance in a nutshell: https://youtu.be/llx-SaGq4Fs?si=eDIny0fqcGYFkB2a

And before non-Americans ask, yes, that's actually how it is. The humor in this video isn't from exaggeration, the comedy derives from the unexpectedly clear way the absurdity of the system is explained.

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[–] Fuzzy_Red_Panda@lemm.ee 43 points 2 days ago

The cruelty of the US American for-profit health system is what should be uniting all US Americans in protest, riot, and violent overthrow of the current system.

[–] Itdidnttrickledown@lemmy.world 24 points 2 days ago

They hire doctors who can't handle being practicing doctors to prop up their delusions. I've only had one on the line in a dispute and he acted quite offended when I asked for his license to prove he was a real doctor. Turns out he was barely a doctor at all. He decided instead of practicing medicine and killing people he would work for a insurance company and kill them that way.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 24 points 2 days ago (3 children)

My insurance that I pay a ridiculous sum of money for has started doing this neat new thing. When the doctor orders imaging, they mark it as “requested more information but never received any”, and reject the claim. They don’t actually request any additional information, and they ignore me when I contest their decision. So glad that I pay like $400 per month for this coverage.

[–] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

Yes, I think that's exactly what my doctor was trying to describe. He said if they're at that point, they basically have to guess what information they're looking for other than "I'm a qualified physician that has run diagnostic tests and determined this is the best course of treatment. Here are those tests and why it indicates X and therefore requires Y."

I've had to do unnecessary labs to prove an ailment wasn't something else that some person hundreds or thousands of miles away thought it might be.

If you think you hate insurance companies, find an honest doctor and ask them what they think of the US Healthcare system and health insurance. I've never seen a doctor so worked up and angry than when discussing the current medical system.

Edit: this guy is fun to watch on this topic: https://youtu.be/s33AVskz3T8?si=Qqx2nAJjguMOxnNL

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[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 58 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Sometimes the Frank is an AI that is wrong 90% of the time. That's fine, because reasons.

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