Honestly, with all the shit this disgusting wannabe dictator has already gotten away with, I'll hold on to celebrations until there is some kind of definitive verdict.
And dont get me started on the sentence even IF they convict him for something. He's old, he's rich, he probably still has some buddies in higher places - I'd be absolutely surprised if he would go to a genpop prison. - Even though thats exactly what he would deserve the most.
Charging him is still a big milestone, and setting the precedent that a former president can be charged is still important. But, yeah, sentencing will be the even bigger milestone.
What is crazy to me is that everyone is making it out like there HAD to be a precedent set, as if the baseline of being a U.S. citizen was not enough to already imply that they could/should be held accountable for breaking the law. That heavily implies what 99% of us already believed, there are CLEARLY two different standards for the rule of law, one for those with money and power, and another one for everyone else.
undefined> setting the precedent that a former president can be charged is still important
absolutely. It is already a win, but I believe the US really need the BIG win which would be to actually sentence him for the serious crimes he commited. Literally every other US citizen would be a prisoner long since for doing a microscopic part of what Trump did. The damage that one person did in 4 years, and not just locally in America but also internationally, is sheer unbelievable.
Sadly this is not Trumps achievement, but the rising hostility of a collapsing ecology coupled with late stage capitalism (read survival-of-the-fittest-mentality). We don't talk much about it but most people dying in the climate crisis wont die of heatstroke but by wars. It is a struggle to keep your humanity in the process. Sadly there are an increasing number of people who stop bothering.
/edit grammar
You say a lot of sad truths there.
Of course it is not Trumps responsibility that our planet goes to shit. That people get more alienated from each other in general. That hate and fear spread like wildfires while empathy and humanity is in short supply.
But what IS Trumps accomplishment is that he is responsible for giving all those hateful, ignorant people a voice. He normalized saying shit that you'd only dared to share in the company of a few close friends in the past. He normalized the complete lack of empathy towards adversaries. He normalized acting like a complete moron against all evidence. He normalized distrust in science. He normalized abusing a political responsibility for selfpromotion. ... I could go on.
But what is really grinding my gears behind that context is, that he normalized all that shit not only in the US, but basically worldwide due to the insane reach he had as US president. Parties in my home country are beginning to do exactly the same shit, not on full-removed level yet but we will get there.
/rant sorry
Half of me wants to celebrate the small victories, but the other half says "wake me up when he's behind bars and loses all of his appeals".
98% conviction rate. That's for all cases in general and not just the ones where the accused is on tape talking about the fact that he did the thing that's in question.
I'm so over this game show host.
Why did anyone ever give a fuck about this guy?
He was a bottom of the barrel choice for a gameshow and was super lucky to get the Apprentice.
Any fuckstick could've taken that role and run with it
Why did anyone ever give a fuck about this guy?
It's amazing what 25 years of propaganda will do to people.
Hey now. Calling him a game show host is diminishing his filmography significantly. He was also an extra in Home Alone 2.
The Apprentice did more to convince people he was a brilliant businessman than his work in business ever did.
It's important to remember at this point that being bad at crime is not a valid defense.
If you mug a guy and immediately drop the wallet down a storm drain, you've still committed robbery. If you steal a car but lock the keys in it, it's still theft. If you attempt to overthrow your own government and can't organize people to actually pull it off, you've still committed treason.
Trump, despite being a career criminal, is still really shit at being a criminal. Some people will construe his failure to execute with innocence - it is not. It's incompetence.
I'm oh so thankful Trump was both an incompetent criminal and an incompetent tyrant. Competence could have done unimaginable damage to the US and to the world.
Let me know when he goes to jail.
Listening to Youtube, Beau of the Fifth Column, he says the Federal court he's in now in Florida has a 92-94% conviction rate.
+1 for the Beau of the Fifth Column shoutout. If his listeners are here then I know I'm among good people.
This. Pretty much as soon as he starting running for president there has been talk about illegal operations and trials. But nothing has ever come of it. Even if there's a 98% chance, I'll only really care once a sentence is handed out.
I’m always hesitant to think anything is going to come out of developments like this - but something might actually come out of this.
yeah, this isn't just some promise to "look into it". he's been indicted on some extremely serious federal charges... something IS finally happening. AT FUCKING LAST. Also, the DOJ will likely be prosecuted in the South Florida District, which means it wall all transpire in Trump's back yard. He'll hate that.
This may finally be what we've all been waiting for.
I'm of mixed mind about this.
Obviously the course of justice must go forward, and if prosecutors have a strong case, the should pursue it.
On the other hand, given all that he's done to undermine democracy, subvert elections, destroy civility, erode democratic norms and traditions, and find common cause with hostile foreign powers, I'm not really keen on the idea that 30 years later, when people say Trump, they'll think "oh, the guy who mishandled classified documents?"
It would be like if Ted Bundy got caught writing bad checks and was locked up for that.
They famously got Al Capone on tax evasion, and nobody thinks of him as "the tax cheat" first and foremost.
Besides, I suspect that this is a case where the floodgates are going to open up in terms of investigations and charges, once the first set sticks to him. There's also the NY state fraud charges already filed, and the GA state election tampering investigation that is widely expected to lead to charges.
I suppose that's a good point about Al Capone. Though he famously had people murdered in the streets and everyone knew it. With Trump, he has a whole army of deniers who will try bend history to make him a hero.
If he were indicted and convicted on his most serious crimes (subversion, bribery, attempted extortion of foreign heads of state, etc), it would be harder for his cultists to rewrite history.
Either way, I'm glad he's facing the music on something, anything.
I agree with this to a point. To me the biggest reasons to celebrate world be convictions for conspiracy and incitement of the January 6 insurrection, and election interference in Georgia (and possibly other states that fronted fake electors). Those actions were the most damaging to our democratic process.
However, these charges are also important because they serve as proof that no one in the United States is above the law. I have a glimmer of hope that accountability may help start to heal some of the damage our system has taken in recent years.
This and Boris Johnson resigning makes my dick hard.
Can we try not to unnecessarily sexualize this? Too much of this and we'll end up a reddit/twitter clone where people are just aiming for quick/easy zingers
Yeah... sorry that I posted something a bit against Beehaw's ethos.
I am a British citizen. I have lived under this circus fiesta of a Conservative government for the past thirteen years and watched them slowly erode my rights. They have taken away so much from me and nothing has made my day more than watching Boris resign.
If anything he and his cronies should be in prison.
No worries and thank you for apologizing! You also deserve a right to vent against Boris, and I also happen to agree that he's worthy of spite 😎
Eh, I think most people are sexual beings. Sexualizing things is a quick route to making things relateable, that being the case. Also, it's funny.
I'm glad you enjoyed the comment, however it doesn't fit super well within our ethos or what we're trying to accomplish at beehaw, hence the reply.
Ah, of course. I was simply attempting to provide an answer to the question. Apologies.
This was such a nice exchange to see on my first day on Beehaw as a Reddit refugee. I think I picked the right instance. Minor disagreements handled with kindness and empathy without anyone blowing up? Ah so refreshing what is this feeling
I really can't wait until we stop hearing about Trump.
I hate to say it, but I don't think that day will ever come. Even in death, his die-hards will be slinging conspiracy theories about how he was assassinated or how he was jesus and he'll ressurect soon to take on mega-hillary's doomsday army.
Hopefully we can at least confine it to its own section of the internet though.
I hope he'll end up in an actual jail, but if he ever gets sentenced, I imagine it'll be house arrest at Mar a Lago. He'll keep living a comfortable life, just with somewhat limited freedom. His kids will continue his grifting empire and make sure daddy is able to keep influencing people.
that seems like the sad truth.
I'm getting a bit worried about Tuesday's arraignment, as he's pretty clearly calling for his cronies to show up to "support" him
surprised_pikachu.jpg
But no really, I get it may seem crazy to those on the right to indict a former president, but I would say it's a good thing given one of the founding tenets of the United States was that the leaders were specifically NOT to supposed to be Gods.
I mean, could you imagine how fast someone other than Trump, like some pleb intern or something, would be thrown in federal prison if they took all of those documents?
It really feels like we, as a country, are being dragged towards an ugly 2024 crescendo of the Trump era. This espionage case is going to coincide with the 2024 election.
I wonder if this time we'll get a mugshot or perp walk out of it? Man, wouldn't that be something?
The irony is that he is the one who signed a law making mishandling classified documents a felony.
Butter emails!!
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