98
Reddit is profitable for the first time ever, with nearly 100 million daily users
(www.theverge.com)
I’m thinking AI-powered something is going on, for sure.
this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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Technology
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I CALL BULLSHIT
Just as we are all leaving for Lemmy. Reddit now makes you have an account to access some of their shit. Good riddance!
The bot generated comments are training AI... full circle
Fuck Spez
(Hey noone else said it in this thread so I think I have to)
I really wanted that site to crash and burn. Oh well.
Who the fuck is Alice? (if you do not get this reference, Gompie is what you're looking for.)
After selling user generated content to Ai.
Doesn't seem like that gravy train will roll on forever
Deceased users’ estates still haven’t agreed to the new terms, have they?
apparently, the path to profitability was "shamelessly sell out on AI hype bullshit"
Which is a good reminder to everyone to support your local Lemmy instances.
Well and behind it is stealing other peoples' work (posts and comments, moderation and administration) and selling them as yours. The oldest capitalist criminal trick in the book: privatization AKA primitive accumulation AKA enclosure of the commons.
I mean, to be fair, I'm nearly positive that the Reddit T&Cs will have said they retain rights to anything posted there for ages. And the AI bubble is already showing signs of deflation or bursting coming not too far down the line. Let them enjoy their first and hopefully only profitable year.
A few years ago I started a blog where I can post lengthy stuff instead on Reddit. To have more control over my own posts and without the mercy of Reddit or any moderator. Little I did knew this was the best decision I could make, after I saw what happened after Ai hype. (I'm not much active, but still, the principle counts.)
Anyone deleting their content there thinking this will avoid selling to Ai is probably a mistake. Because now Reddit can sell those deleted content from their backup (I assume they have backups...) and no normal user can access the information anymore, which hurts the normal users even more than any Ai or Reddit.
I encourage everyone to start a blog and at least post the deleted stuff there for future access. At least you have more control this way.
No one is arguing that they don't have the legal right.
But they believe they have the moral right, and they do not.
It doesn't really matter because there is not much content to train AI on in a worthwhile manner. The huge amount of content is mostly hostile retorts, and sarcastic meme banter. AI will be a mess after training on that
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TBH, it feels like social media always needed some back door business like this to make it profitable.
It's almost like human communication is not supposed to be a product or something...
ok now i am 100% sure im hoping for an ai bubble
98 million are bots
Indeed, you will note that they carefully chose the moniker "Daily Active Uniques" and not "Daily Active Users".
I think that speaks volumes, as humans are definitely harder to retain.
A couple months ago, I logged into an old Reddit account. It only took a few minutes of scrolling before it happened.
I had to scroll back up and try again, and record my screen so I could doublecheck my count later.
35 ads or “recommended” posts (i.e. not from anything I subscribed to) in a row.
I’m curious what that means for the overall percentage of the average user’s feed.
I know this might sound a little condescending, but why are you torturing yourself by not using an adblocker?
I was using the mobile app.
Brother in christ, that thing is a spyware.
That app is a special kind of inhuman torture.
Yikes.
As I often mention in other communities, this smells like value ~~exploitation~~ extraction* from a distance. Value ~~exploitation~~ extraction typically generates a peak of profit in the short term, but it makes losses even harsher in the long run.
As such I don't think that Reddit is getting "bigger". That profit is like someone who lives in a wooden house, dismantling their own home to sell it as lumber; of course they'll get some quick cash, but it's still a bad idea.
In a letter to shareholders, Reddit CEO Steve Huffman attributed the recent increase in users to the platform’s AI-powered translation feature.
Let's pretend for a moment that we can totally trust Huffman's claim here. Even human translations often get some issues, as nuances and whatnots are not translated, and this generates petty fights, specially in a younger userbase like Reddit's; with AI tendency to hallucinate, that gets way worse. And even if that was not an issue, a lot of content is simply irrelevant for people outside a certain regional demographic.
*EDIT REASON: I switched the terms, sorry. (C'mon, I'm L3.)
this comment in one of the cross-postings seems relevant: https://lemmy.world/comment/13157556
Yup, it is 100% relevant! Selling user data is extremely profitable, specially with a large userbase. However, it lowers the value of the platform - it makes users less eager to genuinely contribute with it (due to privacy concerns, seeing it as a "they're exploiting me!" matter, etc.). As such the data being generated there becomes less useful, less relevant, and less profitable over time, paradoxically enough.
Over time yes, but then again those most likely to leave have already done so. At this point I don't expect anymore large exoduses from it, but even if there were I'm not so sure that they would come here.
Conservatives would not feel welcomed in the slightest (nor should they, hey-oh!:-), normies would not feel comfortable due to the heavy need to block every damn thing here just to survive it, and especially the people who think they are leftists (as I once naively thought, with zero evidence I should add!:-P who wants to bother actually looking up definitions of terms? especially if everyone around you is a conservative and thus it makes no functional difference) will find themselves most likely to become dogpiled onto by the people most ah... "eager" to look down upon their fellow human (and some as we so recently and unfortunately discussed go so far as to tell others to kill themselves - highly inappropriate language, especially coming from an instance admin).
So even if some were to leave, where would they go? Twitter is dead, having been eaten from the inside by X and cancelled, then necro-birthed into its current undead existence. And Facebook... just... no. Threads then? Maybe in a few years but either way it's not comfortable and familiar like Reddit is. So even if people left Reddit, I would expect them to go crawling right back into it, maybe just change their subs or some such. Especially when they roll out subscription model to avoid (some of) the ads, though it's too soon still as they get people used to them slowly but surely... just like a frog in a pot being cooked slowly (except that's a false story, bc irl the frog actually does have enough sense to jump out!).
Or maybe they'll simply touch grass, until they can't stand that anymore?:-) Playing games rather than talking with people can be a real distraction from the grittiness of life - and then there's Discord servers that so long as you only want a singular specific game, actually do offer a convenient method to discuss such a focused topic.
So "less profitable", I guess we'll see. Probably somewhat less, but substantially so? That I dunno.
I'm not expecting a big exodus, but rather a slow decline in both the number of users and their engagement. With a few peaks here and there that seem to revert the downwards trend, but each peak being smaller than the one before.
They won't be leaving for the same reason as most people here did, pissed at the IPO-related changes (such as killing 3rd party apps). It'll be more like "...meh, why would I check Reddit? There's better stuff elsewhere." We can already see the decline of the content quality in Reddit now; it'll get only worse over time.
I think that most will end in Discord. Some in Bluesky, and some will simply touch grass. Conservatives might end in ~~Minitrue~~ "truth social" or crap like that.
Facebook might perhaps absorb some of the former Reddit users. It feels disgusting for the privacy conscious, but for them it'll be a simple matter of not finding interesting stuff in Reddit.
The same applies to Reddit's liquid profit - for now, that value extraction still creates a small peak on raw profit, to the point that the bottom line became positive; later on the peak will barely reach the surface; later on, value extraction will be necessary to avoid making the bottom line too negative.
value exploitation
I tried searching that term but had no luck any article I could use to know more?
I fucked it up and switched the terms, sorry. Look for "value extraction" instead; you'll find multiple references to the concept such as this or Mazzucato's "The Value of Everything".
To keep it short: you create value when you produce desirable goods/services for the customers; however, when you extract it, you're picking the value that was already created (by society, your customers, or even your own business) and turning it into profit. The later is faster but unsustainable, as that value doesn't pop up from nowhere, so when a business shifts from value creation to value extraction it'll get some quick cash and then go kaboom.
In Reddit's case, this value is mostly users willing to generate, curate, and share content with the platform, and other users knowing this:
- someone recommends you a product/brand. The person might be wrong, but you were reasonably sure that they aren't a corporation astroturfing their own product. Someone else might criticise it instead.
- you hop into your favourite subreddit and, while the content there isn't the best, it's still good enough - because the mods gave some fucks about growing their subreddits;
- you discuss some controversial topic. You might get dogpiled, but at least you know that the dogs piling you are human beings, that sometimes might listen to reason; a bot will never;
- et cetera.
All that value was being slowly extracted through the last years, but the changes in 2023/2024 did it the hardest.
Have to wonder how many of these "users" are actually people too. I'd bet most of them aren't.
I think that most users there are still human beings, but botting has become a big enough problem that the platform can't be seen as a place for genuine content any more.
Really wonder how they plan to increase their revenue on the AI training data, especially now that a significant amount of their data is "poisoned" by the models they try to train
That's all well and good, but it comes at the expense of the user experience.
NPCs don't mind
I'm looking forward to LLMs copying the gibberish german communities like to use. It is very common there to translate things word for word without any regard for correct german grammar or understandibility.
That's awesome. I hadn't heard about that. I love silly shit like that! :)
Who would have thought, that it would one day be a weapon against ai.
Dammit, all of you told me Reddit was going into the ground and I didn't invest lol
Pffffffffffff...since when is it a good idea to get financial advice from randos on the internet?
The loser remains a loser, but he's not losing money.
Such a shame it turned out the way it did, but the writing was on the wall. Every single reddit announcement thread was a shit show aha. I guess in a way they were transparent about only being in it for the money. Their actions were always consistent
Congrats to them. Sad though that they had to go as low as selling their users out to AI training for that. And context sensitive advertisements in social media are also more a drag to society. But hey, they did it.
Maybe now they can shift to more ethical business models?
They wouldn't, even if they knew how. Because unethical makes more money.
Maybe now they can shift to more ethical business models?
You can't honestly expect that?
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