It found that those models lost 21 percent of their range on average when temperatures drop to 32° Fahrenheit.
That is a pretty significant drop.
this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2025
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When its that cold I use a signifcant amount of fuel more than when its warmer. I think this will improve with better battery tech. I don't think my petrol will.
Fair, but my hybrid (not plugin) gets about the same efficiency regardless of outdoor temperature, it's usually around 45-50 mpg. While pure combustion engines likely won't improve, hybrid systems can absolutely thread that needle really well and are a great option if you need range in the winter.
We currently have a hybrid and a pure ICE car, and we're planning on replacing them with an EV and a hybrid. I'm not giving up my hybrid until EVs can go >500 miles on a single charge, because we regularly go on road trips of >800 miles in a single day, and EV charging infra is pretty spotty in those areas.
Actually, I'm surprised they weren't using them long before. It's basically AC with an extra valve. Thought they get priced like they're some sort of new technology.
There was never really a need in ICE vehicles since they can primarily use waste heat from the engine.
Pretty sure they meant EVs
Pretty sure @jqubed@lemmy.world meant to explain why they weren't a thing in cars in general
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I reckon they thought seat heating and steering wheel was enough, and it kinda is for the most part
Vapor injection is the new technology. It's why older heat pumps were useless below 32f.
Vapor injection becomes an excuse to downsize the compressor and lowers the cost, it seems. You could easily go lower than 32 if you oversized the pump before EVI, but those were only in specific heatpumps.
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Is this really an article saying heat pumps are more efficient than resistive heaters? Yes, that is why heat pumps exist.
The biggest issue is the battery itself. If it gets cold enough you can have difficulty even charging an EV outdoors. I would be a lot more concerned with whether or not my battery is well insulated and heated. Heat pumps are great and should be the default, but unless you're going really far or have a very low range EV it's not a huge issue.
Yes, resistive heat is expensive, but that's only part of what makes heat pumps in cars more effective. They don't just heat your cabin, they heat your battery so you maintain range while it's cold out. Here's an article with more details and some pretty infographics.
It defintely is a huge issue, considering resistive heaters use 3x as much energy. Most EVs have a "low range" and anything you can do increase it without adding more batteries and weight and cost, especially in winter, is a huge advantage.
The lowest range EV in the US is 114 miles. The average commute is 52 miles. Most EVs sold in the US have a range of 250 miles or more. So a resistive heater eating 10% of your range is way less of an issue than your battery not charging properly in cold weather. Again, heat pumps should be available, but they aren't going to save you if cold weather kills your battery.
The average commute is 52 miles. Most EVs sold in the US have a range of 250 miles or more.
No one cares about "average commute" when buying an electric car and considering the offered range. They're thinking about long trips.
So a resistive heater eating 10% of your range is way less of an issue than your battery not charging properly in cold weather.
Who said anything about batteries "not charging properly"? What does that even mean?
heat pumps should be available, but they aren't going to save you if cold weather kills your battery.
We're not talking about killing batteries, we're talking about electric range. Heat pumps extend your electric range and 20 miles can absolutely be the difference between making it to the next charger or not.
Lots of people consider only their commute. They just don't complain about... Making it to work OK? Or don't announce it? The frequency of 200+ mile trips is vastly overestimated by anti-EV people in both terms of how often they do such trips and how many more people live in dense, urban areas. Lots of people already have shitty, dedicated commuter cars they wouldn't want to sit in for more than an hour as it is. A half-dead 2011 Leaf would still cover my 40-mile round trip. Back when I daily'd a Geo Tracker, I'd take my spouse's normal gas sedan if we had a trip. Or my weekend gas car. The average number of vehicles in US households that own cars is 2.3 cars. An EV can be slotted into most households without any real change.
Lots of people consider only their commute
No they don't.
The frequency of 200+ mile trips is vastly overestimated by anti-EV people
The frequency is irrelevant. Again, if you want to go on a single trip, literally ever, in the entire time you ever own that vehicle, it needs to be able to make that trip, and it needs to be able to do it in a reasonable amount of time.
A half-dead 2011 Leaf would still cover my 40-mile round trip.
If you only ever drive back and forth to work, then I feel really really sorry for you, but you are an extreme minority in that sense.
I just said I'll use one of the 2 other gas cars when needed and didn't even mention the bikes, but OK, you do you, ignore everything I said about having multiple cars because you're mated to yours for life or something. You speak for the world. You're the face of the majority. There's definitely not an actual silent majority of people who don't give a shit about cars, don't talk about cars, treat cars as a costly appliance, and keep buying EVs for their boring, sub-100 mile commutes.
I don't speak for the world, facts do. You are not a "silent majority". You are an extreme minority.
if you want to go on a single trip, literally ever
Exactly.
We do a road trip about once/year, and our trips are long enough that renting a car for that specific trip is impractical.
We have two cars, a hybrid commuter (hopefully an EV soon) and an ICE family car (hopefully an EV soon). That family car isn't going to be an EV until it can do >500 miles/charge, especially if refuels take >20 min. We rarely go that far, but when we do, we need the range because our trips are often >800 miles in a single day (usually only one actual stop for food, we pack lunches). Yeah, that trip isn't very frequent, but it does happen and there's no way I'm spending 2 hours of the trip waiting for my battery to recharge.
Our commuter, however, can absolutely be an EV, because the furthest it will ever need to go is about 100 miles in a single day (25 miles to work, 20 miles to the airport, 35 miles back home, and maybe a stop at a store). But it needs to be able to do that in winter as well as summer, and after a few years of ownership, so 150-200 miles is a better range.
You're an excellent case for my point. Most car-owning households in the US have slightly more than 2 cars. An EV covers your needs 335 days of the year and a gas car covers the other 30 days, yet people act like that's why they need a 7 seat suv every day. I plugin hybrid will be my next move when I stop picking up lumber every weekend and put my little trailer back in use for the once a month "haul"
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You still need resistive heat as heatpumps don't work below about -20C and those temperatures happen to at least some car buyers.
heatpumps don't work below about -20C
I don't think that's true? There are cold weather models that can work at COPs > 1.5 at -30C. Are we talking about a sizing constraint for the model here, perhaps?
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As someone in a rural state, cold weather range is one of my chief concerns. I work from home but on the weekends travel to far away backcountry areas to ski.
I'd like to get a full EV when my current lease expires(2.5 years) but the pool of cars that are affordable, have AWD, and 300 miles of range(aka 180-225 in winter) is quite limited.
Just leased an Ioniq 6 and been loving it. Depending on what you consider affordable, it checks your boxes! I leased mine during a major sale and with a trade in, though.
In 2.5 years, the EV market will look very different. Just the last year has shifted a lot around with the used market (such as Hertz cycling out a bunch of Teslas and offloading them cheap).
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