Ask Men

"when is it reasonable to say no to sex?"

Whenever you don't feel like it.

"Martial duties?" Dude. Ewwww. You are never obligated to have sex.

Sex is not owed and, between romantic partners, is usually not transactional. Either partner should be free to turn it down for any reason whatsoever. Pressuring someone isn’t cool, guilting someone into it is manipulative. I can’t even imagine following through on doing it with someone who wasn’t into it from the start, that’s a total turn off for me and I would feel disgusting afterwards.

“marital duties”

Ew. Talk about inciting “the ick”.

[…] asked how I would react if he just stopped paying the mortgage because he was “too tired.”

It was wildly inappropriate to bring this up at all. Personally, I see this as a huge red flag for manipulative behavior. I probably would have answered by saying that everybody gets down and needs help from time to time, and that in that situation I would find a way to be financially supportive through that difficult time. Followed by asking what the fuck that has to do with sex.

Your husband presumably has hands. If he needs something with a different texture, there are plenty of products on the market for that.

Making sex into an obligation/chore/work is a great way to sap the fun out of it and fasttrack to a dead bedroom.

“marital duties”

My male perspective, from that phrase alone, is that he's an asshole.

and asked how I would react if he just stopped paying the mortgage because he was “too tired.” (For context, I cover about 45% of it

And that just further supports my initial assessment.

But I didn’t think saying no when I’m sleep-deprived and emotionally drained was unreasonable.

It wasn't.

And the fact that you said no should be sufficient all by itself, and not even just as a sign of respect. From a selfish position it should still be sufficient, since nobody with any measure of concern for their partner should be able to enjoy sex they know to be unwilling.

do most guys feel this way?

That I don't know. I can say that not all do, but especially at this point in time, more than I'd think reasonably possible do.

That's sort of immaterial though, since they're wrong, and remain wrong no matter how many other assholes agree with them.

Even if a change in circumstances is temporary, does a wife have an obligation to always meet her husband’s needs?

Categorically no.

Now that said, a wife should feel some desire to at least try to accommodate her husband, since that's the nature of partnership, and depending on ones personality, one might treat that as an "obligation." I'm not sure that that's healthy, but i see no intrinsic problem with it. But an obligation in the externalized sense - something another might reasonably demand of you rather than something you might demand of yourself? Absolutely not, under any circumstances.

What’s actually a “good” reason to say no?

I want to say any reason, but I don't think that's quite true.

I'd say any reason that's internally valid is okay, which is to say, because you're tired/emotionally drained/physically ill/just not in the mood/etc - anything that's an honest expression of your emotional/physical/psychological state and the simple degree of desire you feel.

The bad reasons to say no are things that are other-directed - things like the desire to belittle/punish/torment/manipulate/etc. ones partner.

It is always okay to say no.

If that means you and your partner are sexually incompatible, you should talk it out and consider what that means for the future of your relationship.

You are completely valid for not wanting to have sex when exhausted, just as your partner’s desire is valid.

Based solely on your side of the story, your partner saying you aren’t fulfilling your marital duties is kind of a red flag. Conservatives tend to make poor partners in general.

Anyway, some couples therapy might help if you can afford it and are at an impasse. But I’d keep an eye out for other red flags you might be subconsciously ignoring/suppressing if I were you.

I've been a husband for almost 20 years now. "I don't feel like it" is plenty of fucking reason for not having sex. Full stop.

You are under no obligation to provide him with your body whenever he wants it. There are plenty of ways for couples to foster intimacy that aren't sex.

What would he do if you had cancer and just couldn't because of treatment?

What would he do if you were in a parasailing accident and in a full body cast?

This behavior is gross, I get having a drive etc. But that's his problem, not yours.

Remind him he's got a hand (or he can buy a fleshlight) and the internet if he's feeling that frustrated.

Dude wants to talk about marital duties but you still have to have a job? Shouldn't his "marital duty" be acting as a provider? If you're going to follow outdated and sexist rules they go both ways.

That's a dumb and bullshit excuse, if he's horny and you don't want to fuck then he should jerk off. Guilt tripping you into sex isn't cool.

A good reason to say no is when you don’t feel up to it, period. I’ve had similar issues with my partner, so I understand his frustration. However, it stemmed from repeatedly having to initiate and being turned down. So our work around was if I get turned down a couple times in a row, the expectation is that she will then initiate as soon as she’s up for it. I have a high libido too but you still have to understand that your partner may be going through stuff and not take it personal when they say no. Why burn a long term relationship because your partner is having a rough time in the short term?

Also, phrasing it as “wifely duties” just feels sorta weird to ick for me.

He told me that “marital duties” aren’t something you can just neglect based on how you feel in the moment and asked how I would react if he just stopped paying the mortgage because he was “too tired.”

Yeah just, borderline inappropriate imo.

It is always reasonable to say no to sex when you don't want to have sex. If you aren't in the mood, you aren't in the mood.

He's not entitled to sex, but that goes both ways. You're not entitled to a relationship.

I've been in a dead bedroom situation, and it messes with your mind. You begin to believe you're not attractive, and you're just a room mate or worse, a free source of money and labor. Easy way for depression to sink in.

Now it's just one day, sure, it's fine. But if it goes on for a while, like for six months or so, I wouldn't expect to be in a relationship anymore.

HOWEVER, four times a week is a far cry from a dead bedroom. Dude needs to get over it. If it bothers him that much, if he really needs sex every day, there's porn. And if not, there's the door.

Whenever you feel like it?

If he compares sex to paying the mortgage as a "marital duty", then kindly remind him that the reason you're tired is because you're working more difficult shifts to financially contribute to the "marital duties". He's welcome to pick up more slack himself, sounds like he has plenty of energy.

Nevermind how goddamn icky that phrasing feels....that is highly manipulative language that does not come from a place where your best interests are at heart.

So I think you got some advice here saying that it is always okay to say no to sex but I am going to add some additional information and context. I am basing my advice on what I expected Americans longest running sex columnist Dan Savage would say. He gives great advice and I am midway listening through his backlog so it should be top of mind. I highly recommend both you and anyone who is interested to take a look at what he says especially about "maintenance sex" which I think this covers.

So as mentioned earlier you are an autonomous person and you don't "owe" anyone sex and no one "owes" you sex. So both of you don't owe each other sex as needed or as part of a quota program (i.e. 5 days of sex a week). That being said if you two made a monogamous commitment to each other (which should be an explicit opt-in discussion that should be revisited) you both should have a reasonable expectation to be sexually satisfied. That mean both of you are both getting a reasonable amount of the sex, orgasm and intimacy depending on your own needs. Along with this both of you need a degree of sexual autonomy as well that fits within your own definition of monogamy. This is typically permission to masterbate, watch porn, listen to erotica, harmless flirting etc. depending on what you two define as acceptable and this should typically be two sided.

So with both of these in mind there may be times where someone might feel the need to have sex with a partner when one is not 100% feeling it (this 100% feeling it, not anytime one partners asks). This would fall under the "maintenance sex" category which should have expectations at a reasonable time, with a reasonable amount of enthusiasm and with a reasonable sexual activity. This means it should happen a time that works for both of you so not at 6 am. Maintenance sex should be wild and crazy enthusiastic PIV sex but rather lower energy with a smaller expectations. That includes not having PIV sex but can be other sexual activities such as a masterbate assist such as letting him touch you, lending your hand to help him masterbate quick etc. [Dan would mention his thoughts about how often men would agree to sex if they had to be penetrated every time which is one of the reasons gay men have more sex since they have a nice broad definition of sex]. If done correctly maintenance sex can be upgraded to regular sex if both of you get really into it but shouldn't be expected.

That being said everything above is about "maintenance sex" in general and not your specific situation. 6 am is way too early. Daily is too often. Anyone who says "marital duties” is throwing up some major red flags. It is frustrating and demoralizing to get turned down for sex often but there should be a reasonable expectation. In times of major stress it should be expected to happen less. Also it depends on how sex is initiated. Is it a small gentle ask with a reasonable expectation of "No" that is better than a pouty guilt tripped crude ask. That is something you two might need to talk about if his ask is giving you the "ick". Saying "martial duties" is giving me the "ick" from here.

I will answer as another member of an every-day sex couple, since others may have different lifestyles. We usually compromise up, not down, so if either of us wants it we do. I don't think that matching sex drives is a silly thing to want - we started hot and have continued hot, I'd be disappointed if he didn't want to every day anymore.

BUT

You don't need an excuse to say no! Even if he wants it everyday and you usually want it everyday, nobody going to explode doing it 4x/week! And he has a hand. I think the problem is likely more that he is having to ask and get turned down, if I am reading this correctly. My practical suggestion would be to initiate it yourself once a week or so, at a time you want it, and also of course communicate, communicate, communicate, and do other physically affectionate stuff. I think also, it's stereotypical but women lose sex drive when stressed but guys sometimes use sex to manage stress, so it may not make sense to him that you don't want it when stressed.

The Dead Bedrooms guys are not having sex 4 times a week. It may not be his ideal but it's not near a dead bedroom.

ETA: I can imagine you are frustrated, the extra work is for his sister so you are already doing more "marital duty" than many people would be willing to. Marriage is a partnership. I am willing to do a lot for my man because he does a lot for me. I am sure your husband's sexual frustration is real but he's being selfish and that will cause resentment, and that is toxic. If you are throwing in a lot of extra work, it's time for him to step up and take care of you, not time for you to kill yourself trying to do everything.

I asked my husband about your situation and he just said "that's bullshit. Someone DIED at her work and he whined at her?"

My opinion would just be a rehash of the comments you’ve already gotten, so I’ll spare you that.

Do you have children with this guy? If not, good. He seems to have the outdated idea that you “owe” him sex on demand. It’s especially worrying that he made that mortgage remark the morning after you’d both had time to think (AND after he’d already gotten what he wanted). You’re not his sex slave. He’s conveniently ignoring the fact that you’re tired because you’re working extra shifts to help his sister. I’m guessing that he’d have a similar attitude after expecting you to raise the children all day, which is why I asked if you had children.

What is his parent's marriage like? Does your father-in-law seem like the dominant one, while your mother-in-law is more passive and submissive? Maybe he just wasn’t raised in an environment where equality mattered.

If you plan on spending the rest of your life with this man, a frank discussion of expectations and boundaries may be uncomfortable, but will ultimately be good for you both.

The short answer to the post title is: always.

Nobody's ever entitled to sex, married or otherwise. To me, any other position is a slippery slope into coercion or domestic abuse. A relationship is based on trust if nothing else, and there are some red lines that should never be crossed.

That said, I hate binary arguments as much as the next person, and the key element to navigate the grey area is communication. I've worked shifts in the past and gotten home to a partner with the horn, and as much as I love intimacy, it was a case of "sure crack on, but you're doing all the work". That said, there's been times when I've been like "absolutely not", I'm in no position to ride a bus let alone a partner.

Whatever answer you give is the answer that should be respected. Yes, it's frustrating sometimes but life gets in the way - kids, appointments, longer-than-expected shifts, bereavements, financial pressures (including the conscious decision to work extra), or even mental or physical health in general. It doesn't affect the answer of whether it's right to say "no" or not though.

Even if a change in circumstances is temporary, does a wife have an obligation to always meet her husband’s needs? What’s actually a “good” reason to say no?

I'm so sorry to barge in here and answer, because I'm not a man. However, I wanted to chime in because I was once in your position for far too long.

Sex should be a mutual thing between partners. You are not EVER """obligated""" to give it, nor do you """owe it""" to your partner. Sex is NOT a transactional thing. And if you are being told that is it, you are being lied to. Currently, it seems that it is being weaponized to force you to ignore your needs, simply to fulfill the physical lust of someone else, robbing you of much-needed recovery.

He is not entitled to you. You do not owe him. You can say "no" for ANY reason and it is absolutely valid.

Sex isn't something he's entitled to at any frequency. Full stop. If it's something you both want, and your exhaustion is the only barrier, it might be helpful to have a conversation about how to lower your workload so you have more energy. But any reason is a perfectly valid reason to say no. Of course, there's the nuance of not holding sex over someone's head, but it sounds like that's not what's happening here.

For context, I'm a man in my late 20s married to a therapist for survivors of domestic violence. My wife frequently gets home exhausted and worn down by the horrible stories she hears. Needless to say, our sex life is quite variable. So I figured out other ways to meet my needs (and I would suggest your husband is capable of the same kind of innovation).

Others in this thread have already made it abundantly clear: it is always reasonable to say no to sex. In fact, if you're not enthusiastic about it, don't do it. I'm so sorry that your husband does not empathize with you and that he doesn't respect your boundaries.

I would recommend reading Sue Johnson's Hold Me Tight to understand healthy relationships and, if you don't want to leave your husband, what steps you can take to try to improve your relationship. I think it would also be important to not only care about the relationship itself, but also care about yourself. If you're emotionally healthy, you'll be able to show up for your relationship, your work, and yourself. You could check out A Liberated Mind by Steven Hayes.

There is no obligation at any specific time to have sex from either party. That being said, if either party is unhappy with the frequency of intimacy, it is perfectly reasonable to work together to resolve the issue, as with any relationship challenges.

Getting upset and frustrated is not helpful. Being tired is not “an excuse”. His approach to resolving the challenge is inherently flawed and inconsiderate, and your mindset worrying about “meeting your husbands needs” is a little concerning - it seems like you don’t have the ability to set healthy boundaries in the relationship.

None of this should make you feel like the relationship is “doomed” or that your husband is an ass. It sounds like you’re both young, and it’s perfectly natural to not be great at conflict resolution - plenty of old couples still suck at it.

Take the time to discuss the issue again - it should not be a you vs. him conversation, but the two of you working to solve the challenges of a difficult time. If either of you is clearly not working as part of that team, you won’t get anywhere.

Make it clear you have “needs” too - if you can’t rest after a long and stressful shift, it might challenge your ability to work. If he wants intimacy more often, perhaps you could better plan around the free time you do have - if it’s clear the overtime is severely limiting the opportunities, he needs to understand that he can make the sacrifice of using his hand every once in a while while you work your butt off to help pay for his sister’s treatment - often putting situations into clearer terms helps people understand when they’re not being very reasonable.

It is entirely possible he will be unreceptive to all of this, at which point the other commenters bloodlust will be a little more justified. But you gotta have a little more optimism in relationships you barely know anything about.

So disclaimer I’m in my first relationship and me and my gf planning on moving our relationship forward. Ive requested we move things slow as im not quite ready for a physical relationship quite yet

With that out of the way, no means no. Feel free to offer an alternative like just cuddling if you feel like it (last 5 words there doing a lot of heavy lifting)

As for reason, you said no, that’s the reason. You shouldn’t need a reason or excuse or whatever you wanna call it, but there’s a reason “no means no” is a cliche because it’s true (well it should be)