this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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I have problems with people who abstained. The hard thing is, how do you change voter behavior?

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[–] chilicheeselies@lemmy.world 23 points 14 hours ago (4 children)

Ultimately yes, its the fault of the voters (and non voters) who let their emotions cloud their judgement. Thats true whether you like it or not. Especially if Gaza was your main issue; if you saw both candidates and thought Trump was better for the situation, you need to seriously look inward and consider your reasoning abilities.

That being said, the opposition party does not get off the hook so easily here. The fact that Trump could win despite everything he said is a total and utter failure. Their strategy is bad, and they refuse to acknoledge it because to do so means that they need to upend their internal heirarchy. They have buried their heads in the sand when it comes to accepting the playing field of politics right now, and quite frankly as a party they look incredibly weak.

In other words, to not acknoledge that the election was theirs to lose is also denying reality

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[–] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 18 points 14 hours ago (2 children)

Portraying abstaining, third party, and trump voters in the same group is pretty lazy, if not intentional.

The electoral college exists: Every person I knew in swing states voted Harris in exchange for someone in CA or WA voting Claudia de la Cruz or otherwise.

But I guess even Harris voters can be made into Trump supporters with enough effort at this stage.

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 6 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

I think your criticism of grouping them all is fair. Nevertheless the question OOP asked has been generating insightful discussion so I can’t really be too pset.

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[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 28 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (9 children)

Okay I'm getting sick of the whole "the dems failed us" bullshit.

WE failed. WE let this happen. WE had the choice between an obvious dictator or continued democracy.

You can shift the blame all you want but at the end of the day it was an obvious choice. You can come up with any other excuse you want. If you didn't vote for Harris you are to blame. Period. End of fucking story.

Edit: The dems should've been able to run a wet paper bag against Trump and win. The fuck is wrong with people to not see that?

[–] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 15 hours ago

The dems should've been able to run a wet paper bag against Trump and win. The fuck is wrong with people to not see that?

Everyone sees it, thus our point that the Dems are to blame because they didn't fucking win. You guys trying to absolve them of their sins act like the reality of voting is that everyone will vote perfectly logically for the lesser evil when that has never been how voting works

[–] FooBarrington@lemmy.world 18 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (11 children)

While I can understand your perspective, it's one of those unfortunate cases where ideology clashes with reality.

Yes, Trump never planned on following through on actually helping people. He lied, and people bought it. And yet it's no ones fault Harris's that she decided to tell people "things won't change if you vote for me".

A nation of voters isn't made up of individuals who you can convince, it's a crowd of people following certain dynamics, just like any other large grouping of things. You can either accept that and work with this fact to steer the crowd, or you can ignore this fact and lose because you're trying to go against the flow. And in the end, the only people who had any meaningful control was Harris' campaign.

Imagine you're a shepherd, and your flock is running towards the edge of a cliff. Sure, you can plant your feet and say "they shouldn't run off the cliff", but the only end result will be losing all your sheep.

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[–] dukeofdummies@lemmy.world 14 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (16 children)

I just don't understand people railing at the non voters and the people who voted for Trump. It seems as backward as a rocket scientist raging at drag and wind breaking their rocket. "How dare the wind do this! Don't they know this will progress humanity!?!"

It's your job to build a rocket that can withstand the air at those speeds. The air is always a problem you have to deal with, and no, you can't shame the air into doing what you want.

Genuinely the democratic campaign seemed more like they were pushing a trolley problem than a future. So why is everyone so shocked it failed?

[–] spujb@lemmy.cafe 6 points 14 hours ago

excellent analogy.

airflow and friction can be manipulated and corrected. Trump knows this and has been doing it for 8 years.

sure, wind drag is an infuriating factor, i get pissed off at it sometimes, but it will never take the majority of the blame from me compared to the people forcing us all into the damn rocket.

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[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 4 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I never called Joe and Kamala with such pejoratives, but both still would have enabled genocide on Palestinians even if the number would have been fewer.

[–] MilitantAtheist@lemmy.world 5 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Enabled Israel to kill Palestinians vs kill all Palestinians, take their land, turn the US into Giliad, start trade wars with all the neighbors. Same/same.

[–] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 3 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

Even without the enabling of genocide of Palestine, the Democratic Party's refusal to go further left and provide free healthcare and affordable housing at a time people need it most, made the party indirectly complicit with killing those who already died from rough sleeping and refused healthcare by for-profit insurance companies, even if less died on those circumstances than if the Republican party is in charge.

Murder is still murder regardless of numbers. I can't blame people if many sat out at the elections. But it is a wake up call for people to actually mobilise, instead of going on social media and ranting against the system as if that would change anything. If voting doesn't work, go out and protest.

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[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 2 points 10 hours ago

At least the better part of them are now posting under the hashtag #DonaldOfDeath.

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