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What’s sad is how hard would it have been for just a single one of them to say “…but we should send you for an image just in case”
this post was submitted on 04 May 2025
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The strange thing here is that in America there's a better chance they might have found it earlier--if only because they're gung-ho on testing because they can bill for it.
Agreed, if she had insurance. And it didn't get denied by AI.
I hate this place
My wife had a lump in her breast at... I think 27. They sent her to imaging and took a biopsy, realized it was benign, removed it anyways because it was hurting. The parking tickets were our only cost. This should be the norm.
That absolutely should be the norm. There's no good reason things can't be this way in modern civilization.
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In America, you're more likely to get the test ordered (for a myriad of reasons, billing is one, but also malpractice) but also to have it be denied by insurance.
In a country like Canada, the challenge would be getting the test ordered but once you do, the only question is when it can be done.
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The arrogance of some doctors can be scary. I used to be a clinical genetic counselor, a job specifically designed to focus on working with doctors as a genetics specialist so that they don't need to know all the intricacies of that on top of everything else. Most doctors I worked with hated me, and saw me as a distraction from work they could handle on their own.
One time a doctor went over my head to order a genetic test for a patient who had a very strong family history of breast cancer. He didn't refer her for a genetic counseling session, which was the protocol so that we could explain to her her own risk and the potential positive result, and give her the option to make an informed choice about whether or not she wanted testing at all. He just offered her the test out of the blue and, not really knowing what it meant, she just accepted by default. Not only did she test positive for a BRCA1 mutation, increasing her lifetime risk of developing breast cancer to over 90%, but the doctor incorrectly interpreted the results of the test, and believed she tested positive for breast cancer itself.
I only learned about the patient because the doctor mentioned her nonchalantly during a review meeting, and I had to correct him about the results of the test and convince him to refer her to me. I think the only reason he agreed was because he was put on the spot in front of the whole oncology department. I was lucky that the doctor hadn't yet incorrectly reported to the patient that she had breast cancer, but I still had to inform this woman, who barely understood why she was here, that she'll likely want to start scheduling yearly mammograms right now, or even consider a mastectomy, while she was still in college. That was the most difficult day of my short time in the field, and a big reason for why I ultimately left.
You know what they call the worst doctor in the class right? Doctor.
From the few people in my vicinity that went to med school (not US), not a lot of emphasis is put on the human side of medecine.
If the worst doctor in the class is good enough to get a license and has great bedside manners, I'd rather have him than a better doctor with a terrible attitude
In the US, another aspect is that the entire medical school system is set up to make it extremely difficult for people who are not already from wealthy families to become doctors.
The US underfunds residencies (due to lobbying by doctors who want to keep their wages high through scarcity). Because residencies are required to become doctors, this limits the number of people who can be let into medical school. Because the numbers are artificially (and harmfully - doctor shortages are ridiculous in rural areas) kept low, admissions also are kept low.
This creates an ultra competitive process where it’s about maintaining as close to a 4.0 GPA as possible while stacking up volunteer hours. (Eg - your best chances are when you don’t have to work, other than some dalliances with scribing.)
I really wanted to be a doctor at one point, but I realized that I would never be a competitive candidate against someone who wasn’t working and had parents paying for tutoring.
I am confused. Outside of not following the rules and reading the test results incorrectly, it sounds as if him giving her the test was a positive thing? Isn't it good that this was caught early? Sorry, maybe it's how I am reading it, but you sound upset that she even received this diagnosis. I also get that the end doesn't justify the means, but it sounds like catching this early can really help her life long-term.
Oh, no, the diagnosis isn't the bad thing, the process by which the patient received it is the bad thing. Genetic testing is a big decision, since it not only affects the patient's entire life, but also the lives of their family members. It's not something you want the patent to suddenly be informed of out of the blue without even fully understanding that they were being tested in the first place. This patient had no time to prepare for the possibility that she could have a high lifetime cancer risk, and didn't even know what that would mean until she already had the result.
This woman went from a normal college student with normal worries to someone who now has to worry about whether or not she wants to risk keeping her breast tissue to maybe one day breastfeed a baby, or simply feel like herself when she looks in the mirror. She has to think about whether she wants to have kids at all because they'd have a 50% chance of inheriting the same mutation. Every time she touches her own breasts for the rest of her life she's going to be scared that she feels a lump.
It's good that she got a diagnosis, but a lot of people choose not to, or at least choose to have it at a time when they're ready to focus on it, and this woman was denied that. She could have simply gotten more mammograms without testing right now, for example, because her family history put her in higher risk in its own. She wasn't even given a heads up that she might be thrust into this reality - the doctor was thinking about her physical well-being, but ignored her mental well-being. That's what the genetic counselors are supposed to be there for, but he ignored us, and the patent suffered for it. A woman walked into my office thinking everything was fine, and walked out with a world of worries on her shoulders.
This makes sense! Thank you for explaining. As someone who works in the medical world, but in IT, I know of this position. Where I work they are called genetic counselors and are very sought after. So much so they were the first department to ever allow remote work because it was impossible to find a team local. I wanna say half the staff worked out of Canada as well. I knew the jist of what they did, but this shines even more light on it.
Anecdotally - I’ve heard that a lot of genetics classes won’t have students test themselves, not just because “surprise! you are extremely likely to die of cancer” but also “surprise! you were assigned female at birth but are XY” wasn’t appropriate in a class. Can you speak to that?
That “do you really want to know” question is a lot harder than people think - I did 23andme a few years ago and found out that my mother had been lying about my father for almost thirty years. I was apparently enough Native American the entire time, I could have qualified for college scholarships :(
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It's a thing everywhere that women are routinely told "it's anxiety / depression" etc, and aren't listened to. It takes years longer for women to receive diagnosis for anything. Advocate for the women in your life. Go to doctors appointments with them. Apparently if a man goes with them, they'll, more likely be listened to, team up with someone who won't take no for an answer. It's not just the car dealerships that women face issues, it's everywhere.
I can confirm this from first hand experience. The doctor's office I was seeing wouldn't answer my very basic questions, almost comically choosing to ignore or deflect me. I called my dad, he asked the same questions, and immediately got answered. I asked them why they wouldn't tell me that and they couldn't explain themselves. They gave me a halfhearted apology and I found a new doctor.
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I agree but as a healthcare worker it’s across the board, if you’re a woman, a minority, a blue collar worker, a poor person, the Canadian heath industry has increasingly brushed all of our issues under the rug as they cut more and more from healthcare
Its not just canadian healthcare.
in America its much the same way.
Doctors are over worked, nurses are under staffed, no one wants to deal with anything that cant be diagnosed and solved in 2 minutes with a hastily written prescription. Even worse if you are poor, not white, have chronic issues, etc.
Last time I changed doctors (which was before covid), It took me 5 fucking years to find a doctor that would take me.. cause most of them wont even see potentially "problematic" patients.
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It's simpler to say that doctors are morons. And I mean that in a very real sense, I suspect that part of medical school is a lobotomy. Without fail, doctors have been some of the dimmest brutes humanity has to offer.
It works for trans men too. If I go to the Urgent Care, I will get better care if I can remain stealth.
Youth lowers the odds, yes, but that’s statistics not people. You still do the full work up if there are concerns.
I have a 22 year old friend who just got a double mastectomy because her biopsy came back positive.
Damn, that's terrible. I hope they recover ok, i can't imagine how traumatic their experience had been. Take good care of her ❤️
The big trauma was the lead up to the biopsy where she couldn't get screened because she didn't have money for it, and Planned Parenthood wasn't willing to do the breast cancer screening for someone crossing state lines, and her home state had blocked all Planned Parenthood clinics because America is a conservative hellscape. She moved states, immediately got screened, was found to have breast cancer, got treated, and is honestly extremely relieved that the journey is over. Every so often she talks to my wife about a pic on instagram she found while she was boob shopping because she's trying to decide what size fake boobs she wants
Like. You're absolutely right it was terrifying and stressful, and in many ways continues to be, but the worst parts of the experience are over and she's starting the journey of the best parts at this point
the worst parts of the experience are over and she's starting the journey of the best parts at this point
I'm relieved to hear that. Sound like she's got a good head on her shoulders, i wish her the best!
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ive seen alot of these videos"too young to have this type of cancer" triple negative and inflammatory breast cancer is more prevelant in younger woman, reasons are unknown.
triple negatives which means they wont respond to hormonal therapy like estrogen.
once saw an episode of a show that shows rare disease, and IBC was one of them.
and doctors tend to ignore symptoms of a uncommon disease thats mean for older people, they are not used to it, unless the doctor have seen many patients with breast cancer.
Too young? When in the history of ever have diseases discriminated based on age?
Honestly, all the time. Even some types of cancer can be more or less severe based on age. Obviously not in this case.
They should have told the tumor, it would have respected the rules for sure.
I would be beyond furious if this was my wife.
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Jesus fucking Christ
I would blame this less on doctors and more on insurance providers and hospital administrators that deny certain tests.
Testing for a cancer diagnosis is FAR more expensive when the result is positive.
She died because the healthcare system around her would like to avoid paying for the treatment of her.
This is in Canada, insurance would not have been a roadblock.
Forgive my ignorance, but is that how things work over in Canada? I always heard this sort of thing in the US but I heard Canada does stuff differently?
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The wealthy controlling class in Canada have been destroying and hindering their un8versal Healthcare system in order to move in for profit nedical care. Canada has been letting them break their system and its costing lives and money.
I heard good things about healthcare in Canada. I come from a country that also has universal healthcare, but doctors are paid measly wages and results are what you pay for. 4-5 hours waits at emergency rooms, doctors and nurses refusing to do more than the bare minimum, or not event that, unless you give them a little "incentive", etc, etc. So actually good doctors go to practice in private clinics or other countries, where they're paid properly. I have lots of horror stories from the healthcare system in my native country.
But I thoght that Canada properly funds their healthcare system and this stuff wouldn't happen.
But I thoght that Canada properly funds their healthcare system and this stuff wouldn't happen.
Buddy, Canada has the second worst healthcare system among high income countries, behind only the shitstain that is the US system.
The system is so underfunded that wait times are abysmal and doctors/nurses leave in droves to avoid dealing with consequences of underfunding.
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