I wish these vile people would just crawl back into the holes they crawled out of.
this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2023
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politics
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I rarely agree with or endorse or agree with violence. But the rise of the far-right shitbirds has really led me to believe that perhaps General Sherman really should've gone all the way to the sea.
If I learned anything from playing Civilzation, even when you win a neighoring city over to your side with culture or trade alone, they're always going to be a problem. It's better to just raze the whole damn thing to the ground and start over in the same spot.
edit: I also won't fall victim to the paradox of tolerance. Punching Nazis is a net good. Superman does it, after all.
Get money out of politics. The Republicans fund these groups so they can push hate while maintaining plausibile deniability. Moms for Liberty can't exist solely on grassroots funding. They are being paid by the richest among us to spread hate and keep us distracted from class warfare.
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They won't. Fascists have to be beaten back into these holes with the biggest, thorniest stick one can find.
They never learn, they infest innocent minds and laugh in your face when you call them out.
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any apology would become the headline, so that should be avoided.
Great how that turned out. Now we have a headline how ignorant they are.
This is indicative of a shitty rhetorical strategy. Really, the only way to hold someone accountable when they use this strategy is to insist on continuing to talk about your main issue, not whatever they want to say.
So, if they pivot to making a point against Hitler's indoctrination of children, then take it back to their use of a Hitler quote that makes that point relevant in the first place.
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I hate to admit it but from an amoral point of view this seems to be something Trump really showed that shamelessness is a virtue in politics. Never apologize just keep plowing forward with whatever your bullshit is seems to be for the most part the way to go especially on a right-wing group. Left wing groups have to deal with more diversity and you probably can knock some support off that way, whereas RW groups are hurt by the apology more than the outrage.
I guess you're right, but I hate living in a world where apologies are seen as weakness, especially by people who claim to follow the guy who said that it was good to be meek.
It's awful to see this unfolding and accelerating. Thanks for sharing though, I likely wouldn't have encountered it otherwise. I do feel it is important to be aware of these encounters, as ugly as they are.
More importantly this:
This is my view. Other people have different views on this. I think apologizing makes you weak.
This is what cultivates the "never admitting wrong and always attempting to be right" on literally everything. Making people afraid or scared to be "wrong" is absolutely the most incorrect thing possible. We learn best when we self identify our own mistakes.
This whole mentality is literally the number one thing I hear people hate the most on the Internet. Trial and error is a fundamental method of problem solving and if you teach people that being wrong is "weak" then you literally subvert the most basic ability to problem solve.
There could not have been a more wrong bit of advice this person could have given. This is literally the number one thing that makes public discourse even harder to do. My bit of free advice is to literally NOT view apologies as weakness. You will always be an infinitely better person if you just simply DO NOT DO this one thing that Christian Ziegler has indicated.
apologies are strength. admitting you were wrong is strength. changing your mind when new facts are available is strength.
it’s easy in the short term to not apologise. it’s easy to just say no. it’s short sighted, it’s incredibly dumb, and it shows how weak you truly are: unable to display even the most basic of human decency.
Are they teaching Narcissism 101? They should all be labelled terrorist organisations.
Please help me understand. They used the quote in the newsletter to bring attention to the viewpoint of one of, if not the worst world leader in recent human history. They simply stated the quote; something along the lines of he who controls the youth controls the future. They followed the quote by saying to not let the government indoctrinate your children. Hitler, the highest member of the government, indoctrinated children.
How is it bad to say to not follow in Hitler’s footsteps?
Because to say this is bad advice is to say the government should be allowed to indoctrinate your children.
Do you think maybe they should have said not to follow in his footsteps? Because they didn't. They just put the quote in huge letters in an isolated box at the top of their newsletter. Which sure looks like an endorsement.
"But guess who it is that I see acting in bad faith right now? You."
Yeah, can you explain this a bit more?
Yes I can. But also, I have to apologize, saying "bad faith" was definitely going a bit too far. What you're doing is being exceedingly and ironically uncharitable.
I'm guessing that the Moms of Liberty have quite a lot of statements to make the but the one in the newsletter that contained the quote was about giving parents more control over their children's education. THAT is the topic of discussion (or at least what they present as their side of the discussion, their true agenda may differ).
Opponents to Moms of Liberty are derailing the topic of discussion by making it about quoting Hitler. This particular article quotes a member of Moms of Liberty advocating for not apologizing, because if they apologize that will become the story instead of the actual thing she wanted to talk about.
Then you come on here and say, don't let them derail the conversation by bringing it back to the thing they actually want to talk about.
In contrast, you’re associating me with some quote about killing “far-right shitbirds” because…why? I’m not seeing the logic of the association between me and that quote or about how I’m acting in bad faith.
Because it is a quote by someone on this very thread with 14 upvotes. This is a member of your community and they're popularly supported and you've done nothing to reign them in.
You keep coming back to defending their Hitler quote. As if it's ever okay to quote Hitler regardless of context. You want us to discuss instead... Actually I can't really figure out what you want us to discuss. But you want us to ignore the Hitler quote. You said that multiple times now. I think anybody who's quoting Hitler should not be given the forum for debate. I'm not one that call a lot of people Nazis just for the hell of it, but if you're quoting Hitler... Well then you're a Nazi sympathizer at a minimum. I have no interest in what else you want to say after that point.
What exactly do you expect us to do to rein them in? What power do you think we have?
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