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Drones attacked Moscow; the mayor of the Russian capital confirmed a strike on a building (unn.ua)

submitted 5 months ago by LaFinlandia@sopuli.xyz to c/ukraine@sopuli.xyz

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[-] ladicius@lemmy.world 53 points 5 months ago

"No way to end this war", says the only nation that can end this war.

Come on, ruzzian orcs, go home and live. Elsewise the debris will ignite all of your country.

[-] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 31 points 5 months ago

Oh no how unfortunate.

[+] Bee_R@piefed.social -35 points 5 months ago

I get that the Russians do the same in Ukraine, but I don't think that justifies bombing their civilians. You can't play "eye for an eye" with other peoples lives and the fact that the Russians did something immoral doesn't justifies them to do the same. It's still bombing civilians.

[-] yakko@feddit.uk 21 points 5 months ago

That's a good moral stance, credit where it's due. Yet I don't know how practical it is to take the word of a Russian mayor at face value, with no input from Ukrainian command.

One other thing that doesn't sit well with me is the way onlookers treat Ukraine as their 'protagonist' in this story because they're a plucky underdog with a morally just logic for defense. I think it puts too much on Ukraine to hold them to the standards we would/should be holding our own countries, many of which no saints.

It doesn't sound like Ukraine to just attack civilians, that doesn't help their war aims. Attacking civilians is something Russia does because it does relate to their war aims; namely, genocide.

[-] wltr@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 5 months ago

Unfortunately, there’s no point in targeting civilians in Russia. At this point at least. I’m very saddened by this realisation. But at least we can hope for a wonderful civil war in Russia once they lose this war, can’t we?

[-] yakko@feddit.uk 6 points 5 months ago

I don't know if there's much hope even in a general collapse of the government. You go into a revolution with the factions you've got, not the ones you want, and Russians are about as badly propagandized and undereducated as Americans. I wouldn't have much excitement about a civil war in either country right now. That said, I'd definitely say it's in the cards mid to long term.

[-] Bee_R@piefed.social 2 points 5 months ago

Im not even attacking Ukraine, or at least it wasn't my intent. I just think it's in poor taste to celebrate this kind of news, be it fake or real.

[-] Encephalotrocity@feddit.online 5 points 5 months ago

Nobody is "celebrating this".

[-] yakko@feddit.uk 2 points 5 months ago

I think we agree there. Highly propagandized, downtrodden civilians of authoritarian regimes carry little blame for their rulers' decisions, and ultimately most of us are just caught up in the gears of history. Rules of this !c are against sympathy for 'enemy combatants', not civilians after all.

[-] Tuuktuuk@piipitin.fi 1 points 5 months ago

@yakko @Bee_R

Without the civilians' intentional passiveness Putin would be unable to wage this war.

The choice to not know is a _choice_. It is a political decision. One that people make around the end of their teenage years, but a decision all the same.

That decision is what keeps the murder going on.

Also, these drones are not targeting civilians. They are okay. The Russia redirecting them into homes in order to protect Russian military targets is on the Russia's own responsibility.

[-] yakko@feddit.uk 2 points 5 months ago

Some Russians have resisted, so I don't see why you're talking about all Russians having made a moral choice in aggregate. Grace is a choice, also.

There are those I cannot give grace and forgive in my life, but failing to stage a coup against a murderous tyrant does not make me hate all Russian people by default (and I extend this grace to myself as an American, albeit with more effort at times).

Always, some can overcome the propaganda and see through the lies, and then also have the courage to resist. Expecting it of everyone reveals an incomplete knowledge of humanity.

[-] ladicius@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I don't think that was a deliberate strike. Drones that are under fire from AA fall from the sky on unpredictable paths all the time.

[-] Encephalotrocity@feddit.online 12 points 5 months ago

They didn't bomb civilians. Even their mayor said 'no casualties'.

[-] Encephalotrocity@feddit.online 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Didn't flap your gums on this post did you? BS trolling plain to see.

[+] Bee_R@piefed.social -6 points 5 months ago

Look, Im not that deep into the whole conflict, I'm definitely defending Ukraine. I live in a country that neighbours Ukraine and is very close to Russia as well. Ukraine surely has a lot more civilian casualties. I have relatives in both country(used to, most moved) and it's worrying whenever drones reach civilian areas, especially new ones, who were previously considered "safe". I'm not defending anyone, I'm not a troll, my pfp is Porta from the Sven Hassel series. If you read It then you probably have the same opinions on war as I do. I know Ukraine has a lot mor casualties, the Bus incident you listed is a fairly tame one compared to other ones in Ukraine. I just browse the "All" page and this comment caught my attention. I think you're making a lot of assumptions about me and making me the villain when we're really on the same side.

[-] Encephalotrocity@feddit.online 6 points 5 months ago

I know Ukraine has a lot mor casualties, the Bus incident you listed is a fairly tame one compared to other ones in Ukraine.

And yet the only time you say anything is the second a russian building has debris hit it. The glaring implication is Ukrainian civilians didn't count. It's telling that a russian mayor makes a claim and THAT is what gets your attention.

[-] Bee_R@piefed.social -5 points 5 months ago

I just dont comment that often. I also have a secondary account on another instance, but after seeing its one of instances with the highest ban per user ratio, I decided to explore some other ones. I think you're searching for meaning and motive where there isn't any. Not everything has to be black and white, most people's views are more neuanced and trying to fit people into predetermined categories is counterproductive. I decided to comment on this posed solely because I thought the general response was unusual. I see a bunch of posts with Ukrainian casualties and I dont post on each and every one because I'd go insane. I'm not devaluing them, I just don't feel the need to comment on them.

[-] imetators@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 5 months ago

For one, there was no explosion as it seems. Drone hit the building and what it seems from a video, just hit the ground after. No explosions - no casualties. Probably also no explosives on board. Maybe that was just surveillance/scout drone of some sorts. Who knows.

And also, what Ukranians do in Tuapse is also questionable. Ukranians basically bombed an oil storage and refineries in Tuapse that raised an environmental crisis in that area of the Black Sea. It is not a "Chernobyl" there, but just being at the area may raise long term health issues and of course god knows how long it will take to clean up oil spillages. There are casualties. But these are the side effect of what Ukranians targeted opposed to a "mistake coordinates" or whatever bullshit Russia would claim after bombing civilian areas.

Very questionable stuff indeed, but that is expected when you invade your neighbor country. After all, one is attacking while the other is defending. Moral of the story - make love, not war.