It shouldn't. Linux users are like cats. The harder you try to herd them in one direction, the more directions they find to go. Just because they all happen to be in one place at one particular time doesn't mean they will suffer any obligation to stay there the moment someone decides they want them to.

[–] foster@lemmy.hangdaan.com 34 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Linux users are like cats. The harder you try to herd them in one direction, the more directions they find to go.

This comparison genuinely made me laugh because it's so true. 🤣

[–] john_t@piefed.ee 25 points 2 months ago

Meow. I mean... exactly.

[–] Pandasdontfly@anarchist.nexus 7 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Sadly I just dont think this is true. For now non systemd distros work fine but eventually if this course doesn't change you'll be heavily inconvenienced at the best and downright struggling at the worst if you choose to not use it I fear.

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[–] vagrancyand@sh.itjust.works 26 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It's less that and just the absolute ridiculous scope creep of systemd. Again it was meant to just replace init. All it needs to do is boot the kernel and run at launch services, and people disagree on that last part.

It shouldn't be basically a second layer to the kernel in both application and necessity.

[–] cecilkorik@piefed.ca 29 points 2 months ago

Systemd should've stayed in its lane instead of wildly taking up the whole road like an entitled asshole.

[–] Auth@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago

systemd is a name for a set of modular tools. That would be like saying that GNU is scope creeping and should stay in their lane.

[–] DarkMetatron@feddit.org 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yes, but the centralization runs so much deeper! We should ditch the centralized linux kernel and create at least 10 completely new kernels that are barely compatible to each other but will ensure our freedom and provide choice to the community!

[–] mech@feddit.org 11 points 2 months ago (1 children)

BSD has entered the chat.

[–] DarkMetatron@feddit.org 10 points 2 months ago

That Hurds 😜

[–] jimmy90@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago

the monolithic kernel must really mess with your noggin

best of luck with devuan

[–] chris@l.roofo.cc 6 points 2 months ago

Why? Systemd is open source.

[–] kbal@fedia.io 23 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Coincidentally, today I removed systemd from my laptop (Debian Trixie.) It was reasonably easy. I booted from a USB drive into a shell through debian's "rescue" mode and typed plausible-looking apt commands until it worked. For some reason it didn't create /etc/inittab and I made a typo when I tried to do it myself, but other than that no problems. Differences noticed so far that a normal user would care about: none. If nothing goes wrong I guess I'll do the same on my desktop at home this weekend, because why not.

Nothing against systemd, but I think it's valuable to continue having other options and it was fun to see that it's still pretty easy to use them (maybe harder if you're a GNOME user, idk.)

[–] frongt@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I find it extremely hard to believe that worked, let alone left you with a bootable system, let alone properly working.

[–] kbal@fedia.io 11 points 2 months ago

I was surprised as well. I found the instructions at debian.org somewhat confusing, and I'm not sure if they're completely comprehensive or accurate — but they were the most useful reference I found and provide a good idea of what it's like.

[–] mech@feddit.org 9 points 2 months ago

You know, just maybe...this whole doomsaying about systemd running everything on a Linux system is a bit overblown?

[–] Auth@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

Systemd is open source. Its bindings are open source. If snowflake distro's want to maintain this compatibility they can maintain it.

[–] panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

NixOS is the only thing that made systemd a reasonable tool for me.

I do not like the entire paradigm of how it works.

[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 10 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I love NixOS, but I hate how coupled to systemd it is.

I tried to make a microVM image of NixOS the other day, using tini as the init system. Large parts of the core NixOS lifecycle simply don’t work at all without systemd.

[–] kopasz7@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Maybe Guix or Finix?

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[–] TomB19@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago (4 children)

No problem. I'm drifting away from flatpak, anyway. Anything that's married to systemd is going to be a problem for an increasing number of people, over time.

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[–] commander@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

Looks like postmarketos already put in work to have systemd working in it. That takes care of my concerns there

[–] BB_C@programming.dev 5 points 2 months ago

OH NO, they must be devastated!

[–] BigTrout75@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Works for me

[–] redlemace@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (8 children)

Guaranteed absence of flatpak will be a motivation for some to choose a non-systemd distro

[–] phx@lemmy.world 28 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Flatpak has been pretty optional on most distros I've used. Snap on the other hand...

[–] far_university1990@reddthat.com 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

apt install firefox

Look inside: snapd installed

[–] phx@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

One of the reasons I've been avoiding or actively moving off Ubuntu these days. The snap ecosystem is bloated AF

[–] ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.ca 4 points 2 months ago

I've lived without Flatpak for over 20 years. I'm not worried.

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[–] majster@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 months ago

That sucks for me as a Guix user. I haven't managed to package a GUI app I'm using from Flatpak so it was a nice escape hatch for me.

[–] mrbigmouth502@piefed.zip 2 points 2 months ago

Well this sucks. I use Flatpak all the time, so I guess this means I'm going to be even more dependent on systemd than I was before.

I don't hate systemd as much as most of its detractors; in fact I like how easy it makes it to manage services, but with the age ~~verification~~ attestation controversy, and the performance improvements I witnessed switching my Pi-Hole box from Debian to Alpine, these things have caused me to question my use of systemd.

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