this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2026
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SpoilerProbably at the hardware store picking up more Phillips head screws.

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[–] just2look@lemmy.zip 88 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

If it makes you feel any better, the Phillips head was designed specifically to strip out so assembly line workers wouldn't over-torque them. It is stupid that they are the default in so many things when we have things like torx that are infinitely better.

[–] softwarist@programming.dev 139 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

From Wikipedia:

There has long been a popular belief that this was a deliberate feature of the design, to assemble aluminium aircraft without overtightening the fasteners. There is no good evidence for this suggestion, and the property is not mentioned in the original patents.

[–] just2look@lemmy.zip 84 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Huh...well guess I was wrong. Thanks for the info!

[–] UndulyUnruly@lemmy.world 46 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Acknowledging own error and thanking the counterparty for pointing it out with no sign of spite? Fucking witchcraft! How do I acquire this power?

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 21 points 2 weeks ago

I mean you just gotta try it I guess. You know what's more fun that being right? Learning something and then being right.

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[–] pahlimur@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago

Philips shape is the next step up from a flat head. Its just a double flat head sort of. It self centers and only requires 2 tooling motions if they are being ground.

The dont overtighten thing has always seemed like a weird misunderstanding that all bit types could be designed to do that.

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[–] Cris_Citrus@piefed.zip 48 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

Edit someone linked this post from tool manufacturer tekton saying much of what I described may be popular misunderstanding, it may be worth taking this info with serval grains of salt https://www.tekton.com/blog/jis-vs-phillips-screwdriver-tip-geometry-and-fastener-compatibility?slug=jis-vs-phillips-screwdriver-tip-geometry-and-fastener-compatibility

If you like Philips aside from that feature (being self-centering is nice sometimes), JIS the Japanese industrial standard is basically the same design but its not intended to cam out, stripping the fastner

To my understanding you can safely use a JIS bit with a Philips fastner to reduce likelihood you strip it. But you ideally shouldn't use a Philips bit to turn a JIS screw. You can identify a JIS fastner by a little dimple in the corner by the plus shaped indentation

[–] PabloSexcrowbar@piefed.social 14 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm having trouble picking out the differences beyond the dimple. What makes it harder to strip?

[–] Cris_Citrus@piefed.zip 35 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (6 children)

The geometry of the area the bit slots into is different

I believe the difference is that the Philips bit is kind of a star shape, where the blades and the slots that fit together are widest at the middle where they converge, and narrow towards the outside, creating a wedge that ramps the bit out of the fastner. And with JIS they don't narrow, creating a simpler plus shape that functions like two flatheads intersecting with eachother, but with a pointed tip so its self centering

The dot is there to communicate which kind it is since they look a lot like Philips. I believe thats also why posidrive has the little lines- so you can tell the difference. No idea what posidrive is about, maybe its similar 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edit, I was able to find some diagrams attempting to show the geometry differences (sorry, the side depicting each geometry swaps between the two pictures)

[–] PabloSexcrowbar@piefed.social 11 points 2 weeks ago

I appreciate it. That was what I suspected, but it's so hard to tell from just a picture.

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[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 24 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

That's what op meant by "iT's A fEaTuRe"

[–] DigDoug@lemmy.world 73 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

Phillips is bad enough to start with, but then they started making Pozidriv, which looks almost identical but isn't actually compatible - making it even more likely to tear out.

I wonder why Canada seems to be the only country in the world that understands Robertson screw head supremacy?

[–] albbi@piefed.ca 42 points 2 weeks ago

There's a lot of history around the Robertson and Philips screw heads back when assembly lines were becoming a thing.

tldr: licensing is why Robertson didn't spread to the US.

[–] Godort@lemmy.ca 38 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Robertsons are the Pinnacle screwhead. Torx and hex are also acceptable

[–] Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 18 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Not Hex, I've stripped those a few times.

[–] mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, hex is only a few obtuse angles away from being a circle. And that means it strips into a circle surprisingly easily.

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[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 18 points 2 weeks ago

Robertson wanted to be paid for his good design. Henry Ford didn't want to pay, even if it was a tiny amount.

Ford was willing to use an inferior screw design that could cause production issues rather than pay a license to use the superior design. And, even though the patent expired a long time ago, these decisions have momentum.

I would bet that Torx is more popular than Robertson even though it's a much newer design. Is it a better design? To me, Robertson seems to have the edge when it comes to simplicity, but Torx could be better for industrial applications because multiple lobes that have a surface perpendicular to the direction of torque probably gives it more control. Also, thanks to Ikea, I'd bet that hex-head bolts are incredibly common. They share most of the benefits of Robertson. I suspect they're a little less efficient though because the closer you are to a circle shape, the less the faces of the screwdriver tip align with the direction of torque. I wonder if there are advantages of hex over square, since you see hex so much more often.

[–] CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 2 weeks ago

I’ve learned recently, by buying pozi head screwdrivers, that they’re not so bad. But it is unnecessary. Torx or Robertson please.

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[–] Shameless@lemmy.world 59 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Get a drill!! You can do this twice as fast with half the effort

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[–] diabetic_porcupine@lemmy.world 48 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
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[–] Skunk@jlai.lu 43 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)
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[–] binom@lemmy.world 42 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

i love how the head in the before picture is ALREADY stripped

[–] droans@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

And half the time it came from the factory like that.

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[–] mlg@lemmy.world 31 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure phillips head originated for use in screwable rivets and large screws on automobiles where it was implied that the screw action was a one time deal using your hydraulic/pneumatic screw gun on the assembly line.

If you were to unscrew it, you probably should be using a fresh screwed rivet to replace it.

Of course those days are long gone because of superior non screwed riveting and pretty much everything removable in automotive being replaced by hex for the same reason of phillips being easily strippable.

The standard just stuck around because it was cheap.

[–] Sylvartas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 weeks ago

Phillips in electronics is what needs to die. They're always stupidly small and strip so easily

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[–] WesternInfidels@feddit.online 30 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Star drive and Torx are so much better I can't believe they haven't taken over the whole world

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[–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 28 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

just bought a bike from an american dude up here in Canada and I don't think he owned a metric hex key set, judging by how every other bolt is stripped to fuck

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

I'd ask how, but I bought my nephew his first set of tools for his 25th birthday. He doesn't exactly know how to use them (I'd gladly teach if I lived closer) but none of his blood relatives are mechanically inclined.

Still, better to have a plunger and not need one than to need a plunger and not have one.

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[–] DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 25 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I recently got my first pocket hole jig. Pocket hole screws are, for whatever reason, square drive. They're perfect for wood, I luv them.

[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 40 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 37 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

you know, my wife had the same look on our honeymoon.

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[–] Keilik@lemmy.world 27 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Robertson drive thank you very much, that’s the pride of Canada right there.

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[–] Lexam@lemmy.world 21 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

Get a Step Bit. Then drill into the screw head until it pops off. I deal with contractors that over torque bolts on a regular basis.

[–] betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world 56 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Help me step-bit, I'm stuck and stripped!

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[–] gnu@lemmy.zip 17 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Best suggestion I have is to buy yourself a decent screwdriver or driver bits, then when it starts getting worn and slipping easily throw the bit/driver away and use a new one. You can get away with using a worn Phillips driver for a long time past it's prime but you're just making life hard for yourself by doing this.

Also make sure you're using the correct size and type of bit, I've seen plenty of people struggling with Phillips heads because they're doing something like using a ph1 bit on a ph2 screw or using a pozidrive bit on a Phillips head.

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[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Nah I'm buying hex screws/bolts or flathead ones. It is a feature, the feature is: the screw sucks.

[–] BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm buying... Flathead...

Now see flathead is number two on my list of fasteners designed by dark forces.

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[–] Rolive@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Hex isn't much better in my experience. Torx is great though.

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[–] rustydrd@sh.itjust.works 13 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

Don't feel bad, it's the PH design who's at fault. For some reason, someone decided PH should have tapered flanks, so that the bit has a constant tendency to slip out of the screw unless you push the bit into it with absurd amounts of force.

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[–] glibg10b@lemmy.zip 13 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

I think a lot of people who strip screws do so because no one told them that Phillips and Posidriv are different and incompatible

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[–] b34k@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

And this is why I buy torx acres for anything I’m building myself. Unfortunately most premade things I buy have this crappy screw type.

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