submitted 2 months ago by SatyrSack@quokk.au to c/sigh_fi@quokk.au

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While the characters in early episodes of Stargate SG-1 often referred to a group of mysterious aliens by using terms like "the gate-builders", I believe the first time those aliens were referred to as "the Ancients" was in S2E16 "The Fifth Race" in 1998. As far as I can tell, the first time the Ancients were brought up on Farscape was S1E16 "A Human Reaction" in 1999. Even if you assume the idea was planned from the very beginning of Farscape, the first episode still aired in 1999, months after the Ancients had been established in Stargate.

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[-] rozodru@piefed.world 20 points 2 months ago

meanwhile Babylon 5: "Am I a joke to you?" it predates both with the Ancients and gate technology.

[-] _NetNomad@fedia.io 8 points 2 months ago

"We're not some deep space franchise, this station is about something!"

[-] SatyrSack@quokk.au 5 points 2 months ago

Babylon 5 did have the First Ones, which was a way of categozing a few ancient advanced species who predate modern primitive species such as humans. Sometimes, members of this category were colloquially referred to as "ancient". Similarly, Stargate had the Alliance of Four Great Races, which was more or less the same thing. But the name of one of those species was literally "the Ancients".

[-] rainwall@piefed.social 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

In Babylon 5, the first ones weren't even the "first" ones. Loriens people were first. They sheparded the "first ones" into ascension and beyond.

Babylon 5 emphazied that the cycle of "born/survive/ascend/leave" was one that repeats, even if it takes millions/billions of years.

[-] SatyrSack@quokk.au 2 points 2 months ago

Lorien's species was just one of the several species that made up the First Ones. As I said, "First Ones" was essentially a way to logically categorize ancient races. There were multiple species who were considered part of the "First Ones". But yes, the first of the First was indeed Lorien.

[-] rainwall@piefed.social 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I know that's how the wiki refers to him, but I'd disagree with that. Loriens people were old when the shadows/Vorlons first appeared as young races. That generation, and all the other associated races should be refereed to the "First ones," not the immortals.

Before even most of the First Ones were young, there was a race in the galaxy born to be naturally immortal. The first among them to rise to sapience was an individual named Lorien. He, along with the few others of his kind, found the Vorlons, the Shadows and all of the other races later known as the First Ones, when they were infant races. Over time, Lorien and his kind helped them grow and flourish, becoming vast and powerful beings.

It was Loriens people that raised them up, and it was Lorien that stayed behind to guide them, much as the shadows/vorlons stayed behind to guide us. That would put Loriens immortal race as a different, former generation before the apocryphal "First ones."

I would say that Babylon 5 and Stargate share the sense that "higher beings" turn into energy of some type. Loriens true form/vorlons/shadows phasing/Even the future humans the finale alludes to all turn into a state of energy that implies that is the next step of ascension, which slots right into Stargates take on it with the Ancients and Ori.

[-] GreyEyedGhost@piefed.ca 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

But some variation of "the people from long ago" has been used a lot of times. The Ancients, Forerunners, etc.

This reminds me of the "Stainless Steel Rat" series and the long-lost human home planet named Dirt. A lot of our names for this planet are just dirt in a given language. It makes me wonder if we were to find land-based aliens if their home planet would also be called Dirt.

[-] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 months ago

Mass Effect: Hmmm

[-] Quokka@quokk.au 2 points 2 months ago

I feel like we wouldn’t have gotten a season of StarGate within a year of the US release date. Shows were much further behind in the 90s here.

Also all the same actors is another connection.

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