Ask Lemmy

intended for an unrelated(independant) topic: i would estimate that americans average daily allocation for being in public is 1.25 hours.
which is why i think alot of public space in cities are messed up, "IF you actually LIVE in them (not just drive past, from point A to point B . or spend all your time in the house/working/sleeping)
from my experience, that one hour is probably in a privatized space. and there also possible distraction/competition from smartphones or music.

the point im trying to argue: the streets are scary.. i get it. but if ppl only spend less than 1 hour a day in public, then essentially the streets become neglected anarchy space. its not suprising that the problem becomes a spiral. nobodys living, watching, or experiencing it.

Algorithmic (and I specifically mean the ones meant to drive engagement through rage/fear) social media is the biggest tipping point in my mind, particularly when people started having it in their pockets with smartphones all the time. To a lesser degree, when always-on internet became common.

I think of interacting with people in '26, '16, '06 (no widespread smartphones yet), '96 (no widespread cellphones yet), teens chatting on phones and the newfangled IM thing for those with internet and computers at home, and '86 (though I was rather young) when online communication was still quite niche (BBS's and the like). I would say that that the tipping point came around 2010 +/- a couple of years (probably varying by region).

I would be remiss not to mention the 24/7 news cycle ushered in in the wake of 9-11 (2001) and fox news and such after that also playing in the same dark ways.

Edit: also, third spaces going away changed a lot. We, though moreso people a bit older than me, were involved in community sports leagues, moose lodge (or whatever similar), and other community organizations. This put a lot of people with differing opinions in the same spaces. That doesn't happen nearly as much anymore.

Eleven. It was easier to talk with people eleven years ago. By about this time in 2016 it was too late.

Online, no, the discourse is actually better. 20 years ago phrases ending with !!!!111!!!! were not just a joke. By 2016 that was a lot better, but I think the trend has still continued, somewhat. The pain of the internet now is paywalls and ads and slop everywhere.

IRL, quite possibly. Where I am service workers still get treated with respect (elitism seems to be left-coded), but on the other hand you never know if you're talking to a far-right wingnut or a normal person, and that makes it harder.

Only online. Harder now only because more and more illiterate people are online every day.

slightly offtopic:

Not really, but that may be because in the meantime I aged into what is considered the most trustable demographic; the middle aged lady. People talk to me now. Confide in me, even.

God I hate people being rude to service workers, that is to me the sign of a true asshole. Someone who thinks they are worth more than someone else. I don't see it much though.

Yes, but only marginally. The recent past is overrated as hell due to the present being so absolutely god awful.

Yes

No, not really. But it was way easier to talk to people 20 years ago.

No. I think people are more fearful now thanks to too much news. The world changes very slowly.

We change far faster.

I chat with strangers all the time. Airport, work, grocery store, wherever. I have never had anyone do anything more than have a very short conversation signaling that they weren't interested. Polite but clear, so I don't persist.

Nobody has ever said anything rude to me or been shitty.

Humans are social animals, even those self-proclaimed introverts. Everyone need social time, even if it is only with a small group for a short duration. Most people enjoy it, don't believe the bs that society at large is crumbling and people are mean.

Fwiw, am a guy, short, not horrible looking but not special. I am good at making stupid jokes for most any situation. That seems to put people at ease.

In 2016? No about the same as now. 15 years ago in 2011? Yes.

I've noticed a very notable dropoff. As you said, people are angrier, but more-so I've noticed that far fewer people are willing/able to be open and empathetic, especially towards others. It feels like all that's left is surface-level talk and shared activities, with no real care or consideration for those you're with. For example, within my own circles, the things we used to do to mutually support one another have almost entirely stopped, and as no one discusses anything deeper than what they did today, connections are starting to die off.

People have been assholes to service staff and service workers for decades. I did a lot of restaurant work in the early 90s (in College) and the shit that people did to wait staff back then was unreal. Did they do that before I observed it, I am sure.

With that said, social interactions really started to get beyond stupid since the wide spread adoption of Smart Phones and really ramped up after the pandemic.

I go out to restaurants and bars and everyone has their head buried in their phone. People also can’t stop looking at their fucking phones when driving, walking up stairs and in public are just completely oblivious to those around them.

The result of the obliviousness is, they saunter slowly up stairs, stupidly occupy too much space in aisle ways etc.

There have always been bad people, but I think that, so to speak, they periodically gain a lot of influence.

The current situation seems to me to stem from the success of the Tea Party movement in the U.S., which also appears to have thrown things off balance internationally. They’ve established a new kind of anti-politics and, unfortunately, have been quite successful with it—relying on crude rabble-rousing, hatred, and a complete lack of willingness to engage in any constructive cooperation. That was a key precursor to today’s uncivilized MAGA style, which just about every far-right party in virtually every country now espouses.

Where I’m from—Germany—it’s the AfD that spreads racist nonsense and hatred. They’re neoliberal through and through, but they use their nationalist bullshit to blind their dim-witted followers to this fact. They’re exactly like MAGA: uncivilized and primitive and corrupt.

I think the success of this wretched political style, or rather it's revival, has poisoned social coexistence worldwide, especially since it’s, of course, relentlessly promoted by the billionaires who profit from it and spread this poison through their enormous media power.

You kind of get the impression that the resurgence of fascism—with its super-rich supporters—is spoiling the mood for decent people worldwide with its dystopian crap, its wars against humanity, and its idiotic megalomania.

Not really but I do feel like a lot of people have given up trying to read the room and do whatever they please without regard for anyone else around them. Like my senile aunt who recently attempted to try on underwear in the middle of a big store but at least she has an excuse!

Online, yes. In the world, no, if you can find anyone without their face glued to a screen.

There always were (and always will be) some shitty people in the world, but mostly people are ok in person. If someone sucks, you can just walk away.

Online is different, especially for people who don't go outside. Too many people tend to hyperbolize everything and then block everyone they disagree with. It exacerbates the echo chamber and increases the fear/hate/isolation.

It is more difficult because the billionaire right wing media machine has filled idiots heads with idiotic talking points and deliberate bad faith rhetoric.

What's real or true, or seeing someone else's pov is a rarity. Polarization is the result of giving evil a megaphone.

Yes. Up to 2019.

Covid messed up human interaction on a level never seen before. And the most horrifying thing is how many people seem completely unaware of this.

I think hostility has been weaponized. We've been divided and conquered.

Yes, MAGA has absolutely shredded any social contract which used to exist in polite society. Literally any random person you meet now has a chance of being a completely unhinged fascist who will try to ruin your life for being a "radical Antifa terrorist." Even in a city where statistically 8 in 10 of my neighbors are not trump supporters, the ones which are left are particularly radicalized and enthusiastic about being a MAGA warrior.

Yes, but I'd argue the biggest contributing factor was COVID

Isolation just kinda "does that" to people. Yes, the problem predates 2020 but anecdotally I think we've all met that abrasive, lonely trucker and statistically mental health hospitalizations sky rocketed in 2020 and still hasn't returned to the previous baseline, especially for those under 18

https://www.cdc.gov/mental-health/about-data/emergency-department-visits.html

I realize this isn't a perfect measure but I suspect there's a correlation

I don't think there is a difference. I didn't talk to people then, and I don't talk to people now.

Nah, I feel like I keep getting better at it as I get older.

It has been trending that way for a while, but COVID really did a number on people randomly interacting with others and creating small talk.