645
scripts? (lemmy.nz)
submitted 1 month ago by keiko@fedia.io to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world

sent from a disposable whonix qube

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[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 87 points 1 month ago

Honestly, it's bonkers that the standard, default approach for all mainstream browsers is to let every random website in the world run any arbitrary code it wants on your computer.

Yeah, they usually attempt to sandbox it, but still. Sometimes sandboxes can be escaped. And sometimes the code can do significant harm while still inside its sandbox.

[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 37 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Most websites would break, or not even display, without javascript. Sure, it's bonkers for you, but an alternative browser that can't immediately show a website that works perfectly well in Chrome wouldn't get much of a user base.

[-] Lev@europe.pub 44 points 1 month ago
[-] nightwatch_admin@lemmy.world 27 points 1 month ago

I’m not sure why there is a downvote on this… unless the downvoter thinks you don’t hate javascript enough?

Got to pump up those hate numbers bro.

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[-] jerkface@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Because we fucking designed it that stupid that way, that's exactly grandparent's point

[-] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago

Most websites from when I was a kid did not need JavaScript. Heck, they didn’t even have any JavaScript on many of them! No CSS either, just HTML and images (which were very slow to load on dialup).

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[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Most websites would break, or not even display, without javascript.

I use NoScript -- I'm well aware.

But a lot of those websites could function without javascript. A lot of websites use it unnecessarily, for reasons such as:

  • They want their ads and trackers and other malicious code (such as soft paywalls) to work as intended.

  • They want to add fancy cosmetic elements to the content and are too lazy to think about failing gracefully and still displaying the content if javascript isn't working.

  • They built the website in a framework that depends on javascript, and are again too lazy to bother worrying about graceful failure if javascript isn't working, even if their content could, in theory, be displayed just fine without it. (Or maybe the framework developers deserve a bit of the blame for that laziness, since they could have made graceful failure a feature of the framework, but chose not to.)

In a hypothetical world where most browsers didn't allow every website to run arbitrary code, then every website would be forced to take that into account and only depend on javascript when it's absolutely necessary for the website's core functions.

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[-] aim4harmony@lemmy.world 71 points 1 month ago

You are allowing webpages to load?

[-] axh@lemmy.world 58 points 1 month ago

You guys turn on computers?

[-] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 48 points 1 month ago
[-] ladicius@lemmy.world 45 points 1 month ago
[-] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 28 points 1 month ago
[-] kubica@fedia.io 9 points 1 month ago

I went to see the thread in your instance because I thought it didn't federate properly. And the page for weird reasons loaded without css, which felt very appropriate for the thread.

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[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 month ago

No. I load the webpages.

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 53 points 1 month ago

Those last two panels are so far past the inconvenience I'd ever be willing to put up with. I'm not sure how it could ever be worth it.

[-] keiko@fedia.io 15 points 1 month ago

Bottom left is a super-convenient built-in feature of Qubes OS, via qubes-whonix. I just click a button and a new disposable whonix qube is generated from the template, and it only takes seconds to boot. When I'm done with it, I close the window, and the disposable qube is automatically deleted.

Bottom right is my default, since I don't like broken sites.

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

Okay I just did some cursory research and it doesn't sound simple. Is it just installing qubes-whonix and creating a template (I'm guessing a yaml config or similar)?

As far as sites with JavaScript being "broken", that one puzzles me. I have tried turning off JavaScript in the past and probably 70% of websites became fully non functional. That shouldn't be the case, but it often is, and my impression has been that this has gotten worse, not better. I'm a web developer and no one talks about progressive enhancement anymore and frankly my coworkers have mostly thought it's silly to even try to support users who turn off JavaScript.

[-] keiko@fedia.io 10 points 1 month ago

Okay I just did some cursory research and it doesn't sound simple. Is it just installing qubes-whonix and creating a template (I'm guessing a yaml config or similar)?

During the installation of Qubes OS, you can select a checkbox to have Whonix templates and qubes automatically installed. After installation, you can simply click a launcher to start an app like Tor browser in a new disposable whonix qube from the disposable whonix template. It really is that simple. Installing Qubes OS does take a while though.

As far as sites with JavaScript being "broken", that one puzzles me. I have tried turning off JavaScript in the past and probably 70% of websites became fully non functional.

Yes, those sites which become non-functional without javascripts are very much broken.

That shouldn't be the case, but it often is, and my impression has been that this has gotten worse, not better.

Yes, much of the web is broken. On a related note, much of the web is infested with malicious ads and trackers.

I'm a web developer and no one talks about progressive enhancement anymore and frankly my coworkers have mostly thought it's silly to even try to support users who turn off JavaScript.

That's a shame. And yeah, those are basically just dead sites. If they're non-functional then there's really no point for them to exist.

As the web continues to devolve, with a growing graveyard of dead sites (and an increasing prevalence of malicious scripts), I hope that more people wake up to the reality that this is bad. It's similar to the dead-end that is google's android. Eventually they'll pull it away and leave a lot of people scrambling for their next option. I think the modern web will go through a similar transformation one day. I hope so.

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

I will give qubes-whonix a shot, you have convinced me!

There are certain functionalities that cannot be done without JavaScript. In my perfect world either no one would abuse JavaScript with ads and other shitty design choices, or at least I'd have an easier time with toggling it off/on. For now I'm leaving JavaScript on because it's simply far too inconvenient otherwise. Browsers are pretty good about preventing actual harm if you have UBO installed though.

Out of curiosity, what harm are you concerned about JavaScript doing with an ad blocker and while loading sites within a container? That seems extreme to me.

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[-] Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de 28 points 1 month ago

I have never heard the bottom left take anywhere before, though.
Having said that, Firefox+ublock+noscript rules.

[-] keiko@fedia.io 30 points 1 month ago

I have never heard the bottom left take anywhere before, though.

✨️ until now ✨️

[-] Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

"You are, without doubt, the strangest online-script user I've ever heard of."
"But you have heard of me!"

;-)

[Edit: Sorry, slipped into wrong language before...]

[-] keiko@fedia.io 24 points 1 month ago
[-] Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 1 month ago

:-D

Sometimes, I just love the Fediverse and its inhabitants! ❤️

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[-] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 8 points 1 month ago

You can block JavaScript with uBlock, BTW!

[-] Multiplexer@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 1 month ago

Had a look into the ublock settings.
The one I found seems to be more of a nuke-grade total disabling, as opposed to the fine-grained approach of the noscript extension.

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[-] axh@lemmy.world 27 points 1 month ago

I can't convince my wife to even use an add blocker, because it makes some (terrible) websites unusable (and you need an entire one additional click to disable it, it's too much effort), blocking JS would make the entire internet unusable for normies.

[-] W98BSoD@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I can't convince my wife to even use an add blocker…

Can you convince her to use a subtraction blocker?

[-] mirshafie@europe.pub 6 points 1 month ago

A subraction facilitator. It enables the surgical excision of unwanted, harmful and stupefying noise.

[-] Staff@piefed.world 11 points 1 month ago

Pi-hole might be an option.

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[-] keiko@fedia.io 23 points 1 month ago

bonus meme:

Top text: "I don't always enable javascript," Bottom text: "but when I do, it's in a disposable whonix qube"

[-] Ertain@feddit.online 12 points 1 month ago

Does this comic use that dyslexic font? If so, nice touch.

[-] keiko@fedia.io 13 points 1 month ago

Yes, OpenDyslexicAlta Bold ^^

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[-] keiko@fedia.io 12 points 1 month ago

Hey, so there are a few threads I can't see from this instance due to defederations and I wanna respond anyway.

@Digit@lemmy.today open dyslexia font? nice touch.

Thanks. Yeah, it's OpenDyslexicAlta Bold. It felt like a good option for a meme font that was kinda different and maybe easy enough to read to make it useful too.

@Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe That makes it easier for dyslexics?

Possibly for some, as @Ludicrous0251@piefed.zip said. I think it would probably be more beneficial for those who are introduced to it at a young age. Otherwise it takes some time to get used to it, and I did end up falling back to the fonts I had been using. But I do like OpenDyslexicAlta font and think it makes a good meme font, so yeah.

Okay so that's my response to the chain of comments quoted above. Sorry I can't give y'all upvotes due to the defederation, and sorry it took me so long to realize there were comments which were hidden from me. I do try my best to respond to everything that seems directed at me or which I can offer a worthwhile response.

The next chain of comments is much longer (it's a really good one too), and I'm thinking I'll make one or more responses when I get back online a while from now.

🩷

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[-] Digit@lemmy.today 9 points 1 month ago

open dyslexia font?

nice touch.

[-] Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe 6 points 1 month ago

That makes it easier for dyslexics?

I find it awful to read - takes a lot more effort for me I'm surprised it helps with dyslexia.

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[-] PinkiePieYay2707@pawb.social 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'm currently testing just outright blocking all scripts through uBO, and to be honest it is not usable. I will use it for a little longer, then for sure disable it. A lot of websites just refuse to load (thanks, SPAs), and those that do often have little interactions that break, thus making the pages hard to use or even outright unusable.

To give some examples for those that haven't tried this: images may refuse to load (js based lazy load implementation), dropdown menus almost never work, search option usually doesn't work (and if it does it's only because it goes to a different page, which is fair), comments probably won't show up, pretty much anything "live" won't work. Oh and let's not forget the captchas and all the proof-of-work blockers.

For me the only really interesting part about this experience is that imgur refuses to load, even if you have a direct link to an image.

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[-] Obnomus@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 month ago

Its not related to this but Tempermonkey amd scripts is insanely good experience.

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this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2026
645 points (97.2% liked)

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