How about: The labels are available for those who want to use them to describe themselves, but they're optional and we don't label other people unless they've told us what labels they prefer?

This all-or-nothing crap serves no one.

Labels are an approximation. There will always be people who don't neatly fall into those labels. We can invent more labels to improve coverage, but no matter how fine-grained we try to get there will always be outliers.

But just because they're an approximation doesn't mean they can't be useful. Many people take comfort in labels, even discover themselves through labels. No reason to take them away from the people they're helpful to.

As long as we accept that labels aren't perfect and don't force them on people who don't want them, it's okay for labels to be imperfect.

Everyone is unique.

Labels are pointless.

We need to normalize "singular they" again.

Any group that's isolated, regardless of whose choice, will eventually create smaller groups. It will keep going untill there are thousands of labels with a max of a dozen people. It's has absolutely nothing to do with gender or sexuality.

It happens with religion, hobby enthusiasts, athletes, literally anything.

The human brain is designed to chop up populations into demographics since we can only handle so many individuals. If you "fill up" with people all of one demographic, it becomes worthless and you need to subdivide it.

The solution is integration and everyone mixing up together. Then people experience a wide enough variation of people, that they understand no one trait determines a person.

After that it just seems weird when some people insist everyone gets defined by hyper specific labels about one small aspect of who they are as a person.

Ok, there are some big red flags in your question, but I'll address the question first and the red flags after.

People should be free to choose whichever labels make them most comfortable and happy. There is no benefit to trying to police how people label themselves. And an 'ally' should definitely not be trying to give opinions on what is and is not the correct label.

Now to the red flags. I am going to extend you the benefit of the doubt, but these are things you should be aware of. You seem to have an issue with trans exclusionary language. Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Trying to create labels that are specifically exclusionary of trans people is harmful. I'm not trying to control who you find attractive, but making them some nebulous other is harmful.

Referring to people you claim are your friends as male and female is weird, and is going to get the hackles up on a lot of folks because that is the language frequently used by bigots.

Claiming some access to a community because you have a friend or friends in that community is a tired trope (e.g., my best friend is black). It doesn't add anything to the conversation, and generally doesn't make people trust you more.

Finally, your feelings on queer people's labels is irrelevant. People have enough to deal with without their 'ally' questioning their labels. It doesn't matter how specific or vague a label is, you will still need to communicate with any possible sexual or romantic partners. So that solves any issue of vague labels.

Treat each person with basic respect, and you’re fine. Labels are individual, not everyone likes them but some folks feel better with them and that’s valid too.

Putting an opinion on other people’s identities is where it crosses into problematic territories.

Just like religion; “I can’t do/am not something because of my identity” is fine. “You can’t do/be something because of my identity” is not.

Listening to your IRL LGBT+ pals will guide you right, and remember also a lot of the microlabel discourse is heavily skewed to be online. A handful of self selected randos on the internet anywhere isn’t going to be representative of a whole-ass community (myself included!)

What do you mean by "minimize/abolish"?

Absolutely the fuck not should we be "abolishing" any personal identity labels.

That doesn't mean you can't think some labels are excessive, even stupid. And it doesn't mean you can't tell a queer person to their face you won't use their niche label. Just like they're free to think of you as an asshole and even tell you to your face that they think you're an asshole.

Weird you addressing this specifically to the queer community without being in it yourself while simultaneously giving your own opinions a lot of space.

I’m curious how your LGBT friends respond when you ask them this.

I'm old and I'm fat and I'm gay. That's all I ever really call myself in terms of labels.

No labels

Identity has layers. Some say they are Europeans, some say they are wimbledonians. Doesnt hurt anyone to let anyone lable themself how ever they like. Only matters that we respect and dont hate one another. We're all humans in the end of the day

Frankly, people are always going to have questions, about themselves, about their feelings and identities,

so just as people are always changing, growing, experimenting it follows that the words, language, labels they choose are going to shift and grow and change

Also, in my experience labels are useful for putting words to biases, feelings, fragments of identity that can otherwise be hard, or scary to communicate. so when the labels someone chooses change, it can be less that they are changing as a person, but more that they’re more open to sharing a given part of themselves in a given context

So if we were to artificially limit what labels are accepted, we’re not reducing barriers by grouping like people together, we’re just limiting what any person could be willing to share about themselves in any given moment

I'm straight, but y'all call yourselves whatever you want. We're all people deserving of the same love as anyone else.

Two questions (I am also a cis-het man if that matters for disclosure):

Where are you encountering so many of these labels that this is an issue? I'm guessing online and mostly in spaces (like many fediverse products) that encourage it.

What, specifically, do you see as the problem that should be solved?

To each their own.

I don't use labels as I find them limiting for my true self.

But I respect people who use them, and respect their will to be used on them when they ask for it, as long as they respect me trying to avoid labels, which is usually the case, I've never had issues with anyone in the community because I refused to label my gender identity, for instance, as soon as I explain it with my little gender essay they have all understood it.

I thinks it's all a bunch off bullshit.

There are layers in society where labels make sense. Science for example but in our day to day social interactions they do more harm then anything else.

What exactly do people with those informations other then build up prejudice? Against others or themselfs. You are gay that means you have to be like that, i am gay so I have to be lime this, I'm a woman so I have to be like this blablabla.

"I like what I like". Why does it have to be more complicated then that?

Well I guess it is because people single you out because you are, for example, gay. They imprint a identity on you and dangers meanwhile you just want to suck some dick. So it is kind of a defense mechanism to make it your identity. To build a group around it, to find safety in numbers.

So I understand that in the context of this shit world something like the labels evolved because you can't ask someone if they would like to get heir dick sucked without getting blasted in the face, but not in the good way.

But in a perfekt world it should just be "I like you. Do you like me?"

Same with gender. I feel it is just a physical thing. You wann have tits or a dick or fits and a dick? Go for it. But to be a woman or a man? Seem to be flawed constructs to Beginn with.

"I want to be a woman because woman are like that" "I want to be a man because man are like that" go fuck yourself.

Act like you want to act but don't bind that to some bullshit like gender.

It's like picking presets in a game. It's easy to just pick something that is already made and tried and known to work in a surrounding/environment but I'd rather built my own character.