hitler's policies were wildly popular. and that's the problem. people are dumb and like doing things that are actually bad for them. it's like the chimpanzee that likes eating salty food, even though it kills him.
Humans are basically diseased chimps so... go figure.
I mean, I can imagine kids feeling a sense of purpose and belonging. That education is very palpable - girls that age fawn over babies and family life, and boys would rather work the fields as long as they get recognition for it. The open choice of what to do with your life is daunting, so the promise of actual skills instead of algebra is appealing. It's basically the return to "learn a trade" we're going through now.
All in all, a suboptimal hangup for a negative Nazi image. Hitlerjugend etc. were popular programs. Like boy scouts but with (realistically probably "more") indoctrination.
girls that age fawn over babies and family life,
Tell me you have never met a 14 year old girl without telling me.
Popular? They were also compulsory.
Wake up at 5am and do your bed and Iron your clothes before some dickhead screams you up a hill and then teaches you a class of shit you still don't care about? Then you get to shovel some pig shit?
Wow. Sign me up.
/S
I think the experiment worked pretty well.
It showed that nazi ideals are juvenile.
My kids idolize the garbage men and construction workers. Nothing wrong with that, but those are jobs whose purpose and value children immediately recognize. That is unlike, say, a virologist or insurance adjuster.
Gotta be honest I don't think that's why kids idolize them. I think that's just the heavy machinery
You don't see many kids idolizing roofers or brick layers... So I think you're on to something.
Then they all stood up, looked to the flag and pledged allegiance under god.
There is a new pledge.
Jesus Christ. This comment made me remember that American schools actually do that daily. It was like a repressed memory. I had to actually look it up to make sure it wasn't a fever dream or something. I never participated because even as a kid it just seemed so fucking weird to me. Nobody ever gave me shit about it. We weren't forced to do it or anything. But it was still a daily occurrence before the morning announcements.
When I learned that we didn't have to do it I stopped. But my home room teacher was a veteran and he did not take it well. Sent me the principal's office (they just sent me back). A few other kids then stopped too.
once again proving that veterans are some of the worst people
And everyone clapped
This was the premise of the TV movie The Wave that came out in the early 80s.
It has been remade several times, but the original is the best.
It's only 40 minutes and available on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D55LkspO5ZU
It's easier to think of Nazis as just evil and incompetent. The uncomfortable truth is that a significant part of their platform was popular, especially in the beginning of their rule. They were also extremely competent early on, it wasn't until Hitler was in full on drug psychosis that things started going down hill. Expecting something the Nazis did, especially early on to be unpopular and a massive red flag is just foolish on the teacher.
It would be better if we focused more on the uncomfortable parts of Nazi Germany. Their militarization efforts pulled them out of global recession faster than everyone else. Jewish segregation was inspired by the US treatment of African Americans. Jesse Owens was treated better in Nazi Germany than in the US despite being a national hero. The eugenics movement was also massively popular in the US and elsewhere. There was a lot of luck involved in the war in Europe going as well as it did, Germany winning wasn't ever really realistic unless the US aided them, but things could have been much worse.
They were also extremely competent early on, it wasn’t until Hitler was in full on drug psychosis that things started going down hill.
In a lot of ways, it's not that they were competent, it's that the more popular parts of their policies (e.g. public spending, job creation programs) were running on borrowed time - the government kind of strong-armed the banks into funding them, and if they were ever going to pay them back, it was through spoils of war. I guess it takes some kind of competency to put that plan into action...
Funnily enough, that's what I expect a government to do (except for the war part). Invest into the future, reap the rewards later. It's very difficult to bring about change without credit of some sort. That's why I'm always confused by the debt ceiling debate in the US - assuming the money would be invested into the country and not siphoned off, which I know is naive. But investing money it doesn't have (yet) is one of the main levers a government has, usually supported by taxes in the following years.
You're not wrong. If you could be reasonably certain that you're 1. going to win the war and 2. win the war without too much damage to your own country, it would be a sound investment. The Nazis probably had enough overconfidence to believe both of those.
The problem is that it didn't carry on further. The beginnings of most ideologies sound fine but it's the reality and the shunning of "the other" where you start to see the horrors.
See, and even this could lead into a fantastic lesson about how fascism is really seductive in these vague terms, especially to help clean up a lot of the questions of "well why didn't people fight back" that teens have when learning about Italy and Germany pre-WWII.
hindsight is easy.
i can look back on every thing that happened to me in the past and it's clear what was wrong. but when you are living through it, you can't see that. it was not obvious and clear, it was confusing and I did the best that I could with the limited information I had, nobody is omniscient. but when we look back on the past it seems 'so obvious' because we have... way more information and experience and context than when have in the moment, especially the time to take all that info and process it.
and it's stupidly arrogant to assume some average person of limited means and intelligence could see how 'evil' things around them were. only a minority of the population is looking at some big picture of what their government is doing, most folks just care about food on their table and are totally consumed by day to day life.
admitting we are limited beings that make mistakes or just are totally blind to horrible things... is painful and scary.
it’s obvious some people just have 0 empathy
which people?
most people use 'empathy' as a word to bully other people and feel superior about themselves. and believe empathy is only given to select groups who have 'victim' status. so you are not allowed to empathize with germans or members of the nazi party, only the victims of the nazi state.
lmao
Yeah, the whole thing is that most of this sounds good until you have to be part of it as it plays out. It just gets worse, and worse, and the people become more, and more, polarized about the situation. The problems with the ideas, which should have been obvious from the beginning, start to take effect in ways that finally start to hurt the people it was proposed to support. Then the system goes into collapse.
> fascism appeals to the stupidest, most brutish, hierarchy-oriented people in society
> Give young teens a taste
The history teacher should have read up on blue eyes/brown eyes experiment and copied that one instead: https://appliedhuman.com/social-experiments,/sociology,/1968/2023/11/07/jane-elliott-blue-brown-eyes.html
Didn‘t really complete the experiment. None of the horrors of auch a system. Wait until one of them didn‘t want the job and wanted to do something else. Straight to a work camp. Or executed. Women forced to stay at home an bang out kids. Etc.
The problem is that actually running such an experiment properly and bringing home the conclusion of the horrors of fascism would be grossly unethical and impossible to do. (Some university psychology/sociology courses did similar things in the 1960s, though experimental ethics rules back then were flimsy.)
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