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submitted 22 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) by ReconciliationTime22128@sh.itjust.works to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

Hopefully I’ve worded the question right.

I was once told (I could never verify if it was true) that a crocs company once almost went bankrupt after they made their crocs practically indestructible. Whilst the story was most likely bullshit, it makes me wonder: if a company can make a product that is practically indestructible, is it ethical for them not to make them indestructible, so people will buy more from them?

The way I look at it is, on one hand, I feel like they should make products to the highest quality if they can so that the consumer has to spend less money and that less is wasted, but at the same time if it leads to the company going bankrupt, what of the workers and their families? So I can’t decide, what do you think?

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[-] tmyakal@infosec.pub 4 points 2 hours ago

Imagine you went to a football game and bought a serving fries. They come in a little clay-lined paper dish. The clay lining in that dish resists small amounts of oil for about 30 minutes, but after that time is up, the oil will penetrate through, soaking the dish and possibly staining your clothes.

The manufacturer could've used a plastic lining instead. It's more resistant for much longer, and is still food-safe at reasonable temperatures. Is the choice of clay over plastic unethical? Or is it reasonable to pick a cheaper, more recyclable material with the assumption that it won't take most people a full 30 minutes to eat their fries?

Different things have different purposes and need to meet different standards. "Breakable" vs "durable" isn't an objective measurement of quality.

[-] Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 5 points 3 hours ago

Companies are not people. They have no ethics. The only thing that keeps them in check is regulation and market forces.

[-] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 1 points 1 hour ago

People make the decisions at companies and those people should be held accountable for their lack of ethics.

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

it's called engineered obsolescence, a concept driven by German auto industry post 2000 and the reason why they are all in financial trouble today. Specific example: they started using plastic engine parts with plastics that last a set number of heat cycles. They are designed to fail within a set time period. AUDI now uses plastic oil pans that cost as much as steel pan to make. BMWs are catching fire from pressurized fuel systems failing because the plastics are failing. They also move the timing chains to the back of the motor, so that when the chains fails, it will be too much labor to replace and the car is junked.

Tesla uses structural battery packs, so when the pack dies, the car dies. Similar concept to gluing phones together.

[-] Newhere@lemmy.ml 1 points 14 minutes ago

Exactly 💯

[-] BigGovernment@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

I don't believe so.

If every product was made with the highest standards of materials and craft, then all of the products would be more expensive. A competitive free market is meant to allow a wider variety of consumers access to products that suit their individual needs, and price is a huge part of those needs.

I do think it's unethical to charge too much for products that aren't well made and that it's a failing of capitalism that it's not just allowed, but encouraged.

[-] village604@adultswim.fan 2 points 5 hours ago

The problem is the price point. You can absolutely get products today that will last decades, but you'll have to pay more for them.

We've become a culture of instant gratification, and most people don't want to budget and save. They want that hit of dopamine right now.

What's unethical is the advertising industry making people believe that buying things makes you happy.

[-] MrsDoyle@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 hours ago

I've been wearing crocs since the beginning, so 20+ years, and I've never yet managed to wear a pair out. The only issue I've had was that the little croc logo button popped off one and was lost. I wrote to the company and they sent me a replacement button, free. I have I think four pairs in various colours; the most recent I got second-hand on Vinted. My sport involves launching and recovering boats in muddy water, so they're perfect summer footwear - hose them down and you're good to go. Also good as house shoes.

FWIW: "In 2025, Crocs revenue stood at $3.3 billion, an increase of 1.5% from the previous year."

[-] village604@adultswim.fan 1 points 4 hours ago

Their flip flops, on the other hand.. I've had 3 break on me

[-] ViscloReader@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago

It is unethical. If a company made a product so good it went bankrupt, there should be guardrails to ensure the workers and their families be rightfully compensated for their contribution to the better of society.

We're drowning in waste because of this mentality of selling things no matter what.

There should be incentives to make great things, there shouldn't be incentives to be a great stealer.

How would that work exactly? Where would the money for the workers and their families be coming from?

[-] ViscloReader@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

Idk, taxes maybe? They (gvnmt) always find money when they want/need. Securing someone for 6-7 years (enough time to land on your feet) doesn't seem like too much money on a country level when you consider other areas of spending (defense/consulting/...)

If the company was that good, it must've brought some numbers

(I believe, idk I'm no expert at all)

Is it ethical for them to withhold performance to generate profit? CPUs and GPUs are limited in the range, to a certain large extent, by price discrimination.

[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago

This is why God designed knees the way he did. He secretly hates humans and wants us to have an expiration date.

[-] zxqwas@lemmy.world 16 points 15 hours ago

Is it ethical for you as a consumer to buy low quality stuff that you know will break?

[-] BrilliantantTurd4361@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

If the companies were required to produce something of a particular durability the average cost would be lower and more accessible to all stratas of society; your ethical argument comes from a place of significant privilege.

[-] zxqwas@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago

Your argument comes from a position of everything is someone else's fault you are powerless.

It may truly be the case for you. But most other people can make a difference for the better regardless of what the government or companies do.

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 2 points 9 hours ago

But most times you don't know it the first time.

Hmm… never thought of that…

[-] zxqwas@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

You may only have the power over your own purchase decisions, but hold on to what power you have.

[-] gastroglizzy@piefed.social 27 points 17 hours ago

Every company does it. It even has a name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

No, it isn't ethical.

[-] Kushan@lemmy.world 3 points 11 hours ago

I think that's a slightly different thing, albeit with a similar outcome depending on intent.

You can make "indestructible" versions of lots of things, but that doesn't mean they're remotely affordable or even desirable (due to weight or materials used).

A company deliberately making something bad so it breaks is what you're describing, but a company making something lower quality so it's cheaper isn't necessarily the same.

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[-] Pudutr0n@lemmy.world 43 points 22 hours ago

There are companies that went broke by making their product indestructible, a notable example being the maker of the wildly popular Instant Pot. They made a product that just didn't break. This is called planned obsolescence failure and has happened to other companies too.

That being said, making flimsy shit on purpose is shady at best.

[-] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 52 points 22 hours ago

This is why capitalism is stupid at its core. It doesn't promote anything good. It only promotes greed and enriching the top. Make the shittiest product you possibly can that people will buy, buy out every other maker of product, repopulate the sector with fake brands to give people illusion of choice.

Oldest trick in the book. And literally not 1 person I know can see through this trickery.

In capitalism making a long lasting good product is not viable at all, it makes no sense. Who gives a shit if your great grandkid is still using your oven 60 years later, the shareholders dont benefit then. Out of business. Its an idiotic system kept alive only by propaganda.

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[-] Montagge@lemmy.zip 35 points 21 hours ago

The real reason was private equity

Private equity made things a lot worse. In 2019, Instant Brands was acquired by Cornell Capital and unceremoniously merged with Corelle Brands, a housewares company that includes Pyrex. An acquisition by a private equity firm brings certain expectations with it—namely: lots and lots of fast growth.

https://www.bonappetit.com/story/instant-pot-bankrupt

[-] Feyd@programming.dev 29 points 21 hours ago

The company that made instant pot actually went bankrupt because it was acquired by private equity via leveraged buyout.

What you're telling is the story the evil assholes that profit from that kind of thing want you to believe.

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[-] FishFace@piefed.social 0 points 7 hours ago

Yes, for a suitable value of "easily." It doesn't make sense to design every product to be as robust as possible, so there is a trade-off between robustness and other factors like cost and weight. A laptop or phone breaks easily if you drop it, but that doesn't mean the manufacturer is unethical for not making every single one be one of those super-rugged ones with rubber corners. As the ease of breakage increases, and as the cost of making it more robust decreases, so it becomes less and less justifiable to do.

The problem here is really uncertainty and lack of knowledge. If you knew that the product you were buying was going to last for exactly 17 months, you could compare the cost over its lifetime to one which would last exactly 25 months. Then all the underhanded tactics of planned obsolescence would be far less effective. But we don't know that, and really we don't even know the average or likely range.

[-] Omgpwnies@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

There's also aesthetics and other factors. Most people don't want the super-rugged phones with the rubberized bits and so on.

Another thing to consider is sometimes people don't want to (or can't) spend top dollar on something that will last forever. For example, if I'm new into a hobby, I'm not going to go out and buy the absolute best out there. I'll usually shoot for somewhere in between "not shit" and "fairly decent" depending on what it is. If I get good enough and want to upgrade, then at that point I can look at the higher-end stuff and I'll have the bonus of now knowing what properties I need to look for. If the cheaper equipment is still working I can re-sell or donate it. If not, maybe I'll try to fix/mod it before tossing.

[-] FishFace@piefed.social 1 points 2 hours ago

I generally believe most of the unrepairability we see in tech is coming from consumer preferences more than planned obsolescence. Thin, waterproof phones are inherently hard to repair. I'm sure obsolescence is a factor that motivates companies in that direction too, but reputation around longevity does influence purchasing decisions, so it's not something which they can do "for free" as it were. Making phones thin and light, on the other hand, is positive for sales.

[-] Switorik@sh.itjust.works 27 points 21 hours ago

Think about all the waste that cheap products create. I can buy a cheap pair of work boots twice a year or a good pair every 2/3 years. I believe it's unethical for preying on the poor while also creating more waste.

[-] ohulancutash@feddit.uk 27 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. ... A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. ... But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.

This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socio-economic unfairness.

Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms

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this post was submitted on 22 Sep 2026
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