289

Does anyone have experience with doing this in germany?

Thanks for any answers

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[-] SoGrumpy@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 days ago

I received a notification for downloading something I didn't download - I'm not even interested in it. Went to court, court said it was my IP and I had to pay. 1500€ for something I didn't download. In Germany you have to prove innocence, which is impossible if all you can say is "It wasn't me."

[-] Tetsuo@jlai.lu 18 points 6 days ago

Meanwhile the AI bros are pirating every media they can get a hold on in total impunity...

But individuals get targeted by lawyers.

[-] Taleya@aussie.zone 8 points 6 days ago

Next time tell them you're training AI

[-] Fickle_Ferret@lemmy.ml 7 points 6 days ago

Don't actually do that. They will take that as admission of guilt.

[-] veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 6 days ago

Tell them the AI escaped confinement but that's fine because you never told it to do that.

Don’t actually do that. They will take that as admission of guilt.

[-] veniasilente@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 days ago

How's that an admission of guilt? The AI did it. We have legal precedent now with the various confinement cases.

[-] Taleya@aussie.zone 15 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I used to work the abuse department for an isp back at the turn of the century.

While we covered our arses by emailing customers "we have received a copyright notice blah blah don't be naughty", the companies that filed the "complaint"? Got a big fat "fuck off and come back with an Australian court order"

We never released a single customer detail. Because privacy laws in Australia meant $50,000 per breach.

[-] WarmApplePieShrek@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

In Germany, they don't have to prove guilt, you have to prove innocence or else you get fined. If you don't voluntarily pay the fine and they have to go to court, the fine doubles. The system is rigged for the corporations. That's why they've done this in Germany for a long time. The expansions to other countries are experimental.

[-] DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I'd rather VPN to some EU country east of Berlin if I were you.

Slovakia has some copyright laws but they're not that strictly enforced. Also no c&d letter equivalent has arrived to my physical inbox for what I've done on the Internet.

[-] JustEnoughDucks@slrpnk.net 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

In Belgium, just next to it, I know someone who was doing tons of torrenting and sharing with friends and family back in 2005-2010 time and got prosecuted for his piracy (like 5 years after he was doing it) and had to pay huge fines as a young adult from what he did as a teenager. He definitely wasn't using a VPN and probably port forwarding and openly sharing back in those days. It definitely happens. (Not Germany but neighbors)

Just get and use a VPN with a client kill switch. Paying 50-100€ per year is much cheaper than 10k in fines down the line, and don't share it with anyone outside of your household.

[-] dhkuq3645@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 days ago

well but he seeded a lot

[-] TigerAce@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 days ago

From what I've heard from my German friends the network owner, so the one paying the isp bill, is responsible for whatever happens on the network. If someone broke in onto your network and downloaded illegal stuff, you are still liable for the fines as you should have protected your network sufficiently. Maybe you can get away with it if you are able to present hard evidence your sufficiently protected network was broken in to.

It's the same with speed cam tickets. If you prove in court someone else was driving your car, you won't have to pay the fine. If you are unable to, you are liable.

Imo it goes against the law. There's this thing called "innocent until proven guilty", so the burden of proof lies with the authorities, not with you. But sadly it's not always the case. This did cause a lot of legal fights though, and to my knowledge this caused the German police to flash cars from the front now, so the driver would be visible in the photo in most situations.

[-] WarmApplePieShrek@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Germany does not have "innocent until proven guilty". It has "guilty until someone else is proven guilty". They will always find someone who has to pay compensation. There is no "we don't know who did it because of an anonymizer service", they will just make the anonymizer service pay instead.

Except when law says they don't have to. Right now the law is that registered service providers can't be fined on behalf of their customers, and there isn't a law saying they have to be able to identify the customers. So VPNs get by.

[-] lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Or just ignore it. If you actually read it, it never says anything about you being in trouble at that moment, but it's intentionally worded to invoke that fear.

Toss it in the bin, and use a VPN or Usenet.

[-] ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 144 points 1 week ago

Don't even need to respond, just toss the letter. You will never hear from them again. But do use a VPN when torrenting from especially Germany.

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[-] Hond@piefed.social 73 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I wouldnt admit not having a wifi password in germany. Theres the "Störerhaftung". If its your device you are responsible. Thats why germany has so few open public wifis.

But i never got a letter and looked up what to do? Probably tossing the letter into the trash is enough. Just be sure to seperate your waste properly so your neighbour doesnt sue you.

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[-] sit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 40 points 1 week ago

An acquaintance from Germany received one or two of these letters. They didn’t react and there has never been more.

They told me the letters had big and official, scary looking paper work.

A non-reaction seemed to be enough to fend off these unrealistic accusations, they told me.

It’s been a few years since I heard this story.

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this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2026
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