Having met a lot of humans over the decades I’m quite “happy” to overlook an unfortunate event in someone’s private life. We’re imperfect beings that occasionally break. It’s sad, but the way things are…

But when there’s multiple reports of the same repeat behaviours it is time to have a think…

But then you have, e.g. R Kelly. That wasn’t a momentary lapse of reason - it was a conscious concerted effort to have sex with a ~~young woman~~ child. Even if it only happened once (spoiler: it didn’t) that is one time too many.

The only thing that slightly worries me is career death by allegation alone. I know they say there’s no smoke without fire - but, weird times.

At least when a person is convicted it’s far far easier to take a stance or make a decision.

I'm not a metal head. I enjoy some metal music but that scene isn't one that I feel like I belong in.

But I think there is something to be said for the types of open secrets that exist in Hollywood and the music industry (specifically the American music industry).

R. Kelly abused, assault groomed, and harmed women for years. It was such an open secret that a lot of the Black community in Chicago knew and at least some of those people were complicit. To the point where they were still offering up their under aged daughters to this predator in the hopes that he could get them their big break.

This all was happening long after Aaliyah and her teen marriage to him while he was a grown man. That news was known and authenticated as fact and people still did this.

Other artists still made music with him. He wrote songs about what he'd done, including writing Aaliyah's songs, several of which implicated him.

There was a lot of talk about "separating the music from the artist" when he was finally sentenced. I drew a line in the sand at that point with both family and friends because it was not okay to me. At the point where the artist is writing music about what they did there is no separating art from the artist.

It seems like this scenario where a popular artist does something terrible and that has been general public knowledge or rumor for a long time ends up becoming a well publicized scandal, there are always going to be people who ape for them regardless of what they have done. We have seen that specifically with P Diddy and Cosby, and Michael Jackson (who I will admit has a questionable chain of events implicating him at best). We saw it with Pee Wee Herman both before and after his death.

It happens because some people don't want to admit that something they like is problematic. They feel compromised by proxy and they actively avoid that shame and guilt they feel for "enabling a monster" by completely avoiding confronting it. To some extent it's... clique mechanics. To some extent I think it's human nature.

I'd also be willing to bet that a lot of people who don't pay any attention to celebrity news just don't know.

There are a lot of music artists who have done terrible things and are still popular. Al Green was a wife beater. Marvin Gay was a serial cheater.

Everyone knows the story about Tina Turner and Ike Turner, but would we know that story if it hadn't been turned into a movie?

I think Sting from the Police cheated on his wife and stole his band mates wife or girlfriend.

My point is, I'm sure there's some malice involved in people continuing to support Manson. But I would bet a lot of people just aren't aware of a lot of what he's accused of (including the newest allegations - this is the first I've heard or them).

I'd bet more people are just ignorant than anything else.

Is heavy metal about uplifting the downtrodden? Not that it's against it, but I've listened to a lot of metal and that wouldn't be the first ethos I associate it with.

But anyway the answer is because most people who are listening to music are just there to consume the music. There's a good chance they don't care about who the artists are as people, if they're even aware of controversy at all.

There's three aspects to this specific instance of it

First, and foremost, it's Manson. Everyone knew he was fucked in the head decades ago. Nobody was ash at all surprised to hear that he'd been a douche and elevated it to criminal levels because he's always been pretty douchey aside from being also known for breaking down expectations of appearances. Like, he's long been known to be into really edgy sexual shit. So anyone that was already a fan knew it was bound to become public at some point.

Second, it really wasn't the big news it seems like it would be. Yeah, it got coverage, but since he didn't do jail time (and likely won't), it never really amounted to much. There's a shit ton of people that just don't know. I was talking to someone early this year and they hadn't heard about it all. Mind you, their respond was "not surprised". Plus, plenty of people think it has already been in court and over with. That goes along with the lack of consequences to add up in some perceptions as being a nothing burger.

Third, metal isn't monolithic, and opening acts just aren't given the same scrutiny by the segment of fans that are of the mind to boycott or protest unsettled issues. As in, he used to be the headliner. Now he's second fiddle. He doesn't have the same level of fandom he used to. And meatheads care less about him opening for someone than they would if it was his tour.

Fwiw, metalheads do run high towards a degree of social awareness, but that isn't a 1:1 correlation with automatically jumping on a bandwagon. Metal also has a strong contrarian, anti-mainstream aspect. Since uplifting the downtrodden is only one facet of that, and it isn't universal, you can't assume that metalheads are going to agree that a given act needs censure.

Hell, I'm not on the bandwagon of trashing someone that hasn't had their day in court. I don't object to anyone boycotting a given performer/band for whatever, but I'll be fucked if anyone is going to dictate that I do or don't. And that's a very metalhead stance on most things. You try and tell metalheads that they have to conform to your idea of what should be done when a performer is douche, you're now the douche. Seriously, ignoring the current specific subject matter, never waste your time telling a metalhead they're obligated to follow your beliefs. All you'll get in return is a middle finger. And that's the nice response.

I am very surprised that slipknot is working with him, they tend to be more assertive about such things than a lot of bands.

From a metalhead to someone that isn't, but that I very much respect, your concept of the metal community is flawed. Metal fans can be some of the most balls out, staunch allies of the underdog you'll ever hope to see. But that isn't the sum total of being part of that community, and there are segments that are distinctly hated by the majority that are absolute pieces of shit. There's white nationalist metal fans, though they tend to stick mostly to the shitty bands that espouse that belief. There's segments that are absolutely misogynist, homophobic, and other forms of bigot.

The most defining trait you'll run into isn't so much uplifting anyone, it's opposition to the status quo, the mainstream, the "normies" (though I hate that fucking word). That comes along with, as mentioned earlier, a lot of contrarianism. Just by someone saying they should avoid Manson, a lot of metalheads will think "fuck you, you don't tell me what to like". The worst elements would park outside your house and blast his music, even if they weren't actually fans.

Ngl, I'm of the sort that is going to outright say fuck you, you don't tell me what to like, even if I agree and would be avoiding a band on my own. It's different now to a degree, but being a metalhead back in the eighties was a fucking fight. You got into metal and all of a sudden people are shitting on you. "That's satanic", it's this, it's that, you're this or that. Since the music itself could explicitly oppose that kind of thing, you likely wouldn't have gotten past the usual fluffy hair bands if you weren't already a little contrarian. If you weren't, you were likely to become so lol.

I sure as fuck didn't forget. It pains me to see people still going to shows from total assholes. And shame on the other bands that share a stage with these people. Everyone needs to do better here.

Fuck Marilyn Manson, listen to Conan!

Manson was a putz back in the day and remains one now. I don’t understand his popularity. And in the face of these charges. Even If true- he will still have the support of idiots across the globe.

I don't know a single metalhead that likes or ever liked manson beyond maybe the dope show. He's been washed up for nearly 30 years.

The trouble with becoming a household name is you can make more than average money by being a burnt out loser. See, for example, Bert Kreischer,Andy Dick, Bam Margera, Steven Seagall, Pauly Shore, Cory Feldman...

He's an archetype. He doesn't have fans. He's a symbol of a former cultural zeitgeist who has been all but hollowed out by drugs and capitalism.

Money.