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submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by usdeurpes@lemmy.zip to c/linux@lemmy.ml

It seems Linus's position is very clear now

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[-] stsquad@lemmy.ml 152 points 1 week ago

The reactions to this have been pretty hysterical considering this is an experimental branch on his own repository. I'm not surprised he might experiment with using AI agents to solve a particular pain point to see how it does. This is using agents to experiment with things that you might not have time to address normally.

Another recent example is the build system where the author said:

An LLM was used to first determine where the bottlenecks were then to figure out how to improve them. It generated a lot of code, much of it hideous.

I extensively audited and rewrote a lot of it, and heavily edited commit messages, the cover letter and comments.

off-loading the boring grunt work of identifying bottle necks and trying new approaches seems like an ideal task for a junior agent to deal with as long is you don't YOLO the result to the lists for other humans to de-slopify for you.

[-] Serinus@lemmy.world 66 points 1 week ago

as long is you don't YOLO the result to the lists for other humans to de-slopify for you.

(Or not de-slopify at all.)

There's literally no one I trust more to handle llm code more than Linus.

He's not going to pass off shit in his name. He'll use it in the best possible way.

Lots of reasons to be anti-AI, but it's not all black and white. It's here to stay and it's useful. (But we ain't gonna spend 400 billion a year on it.)

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[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 40 points 1 week ago

People cannot seem to grasp that there is a difference in using LLMs to experiment and just blindly using code written by an LLM. You'd think they would realize Linus is never going to do the latter. Binary thinking leads to this...

[-] bjc@scribe.disroot.org 17 points 1 week ago

is there a difference in the environmental destruction when used this way? no? these things have so many negative effects on the world in so many areas that making life more convenient for coddled computer touches doesn’t excuse literally any of it

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[-] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 week ago

LLM companies will legitimize their shit by saying "look, Linus is using our model to make Linux better".

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[-] victorz@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago

For me, there's more to it than just the output. But I'm sure Linus won't let his mind rot in LLM. Yet. Still... Lots of reasons to object to using AI at all. Use a computer responsibly, folks.

[-] stsquad@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 week ago

I can absolutely understand some of the objections and I understand why writers and artists are pissed. My code has always been free software so I don't object to it being in the training sets because that seems fair use according to the four freedoms.

The power usage is definitely a concern but that holds up for all computing. I don't see people up in arms about inefficient CI loops retesting the whole world for a single line change. Think of savings that could be made!

[-] victorz@lemmy.world 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

My code has always been free software so I don't object to it being in the training sets because that seems fair use according to the four freedoms.

But what about the output of an LLM that was trained on free software, then being used in closed source, commercial software? 🙁

inefficient CI loops retesting the whole world for a single line change. Think of savings that could be made!

Oh yeah, I'm definitely with you there. Oh gosh.

They probably should be up in arms! Both are bad things, simultaneously, as two things can be!

[-] eldavi@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 week ago

The reactions to this have been pretty hysterical

i FULLY expected more hate. lol

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[-] wuphysics87@lemmy.ml 89 points 1 week ago

My issue isn't with using AI to work on the Linux Kernel. My issue is working on the kernel with proprietary AI which enables Sam Altman to claim Millennium Prizes.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 37 points 1 week ago

I completely agree, using an open model would be far more inline with the spirit of open source.

[-] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 week ago

Yeah, I’m quickly seeing a future where stuff like this AI rewrite of the Adobe suite may need to be distributed as the model that makes the software and not the software itself. If that becomes the case then we really will have entered into a world where tech bros control everything as you will quickly find yourself in a world where you can’t use the software if you don’t have the compute to make it.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 week ago

I can see a completely different kind of future where local models that run on commodity software get good enough for what most people need to do. At that point we'd be in a world that Stallman envisioned with every user having full control over what's running on their machine, and being able to build whatever features they want. We already see how it's becoming trivial to reverse engineer complex apps like Photoshop, or to crack PS5 games using LLMs. We are likely end up in a world where closed source is dead because code itself no longer has any value because anybody can copy and reproduce any application trivially.

And we are already starting to get there. Qwen 3.8 27b is comparable in terms of capability to Opus 4.6 which was a frontier model just half a year ago. If Qwen 4 gets to about Opus 5.5 level sometime next year, that's going to be good enough for making vast majority of software that people need. After that it's just a matter of further optimization or hardware getting better so it can run on most computers. But just to reiterate, it's already running on consumer grade hardware, and it can do real work today.

[-] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago

I’m not sure I agree with the idea that the necessary level of compute will be made available to the average person. We are already well into a paradigm where the average “PC” is an iPad or similar, with Google locking down Android and Microsoft… being Microsoft, I just don’t have any optimism that the future will have the same kind of access to personal computing power or even software access. The “tin-foil hat” part of my brain says that the purchasing years worth of chips output is part of a conspiracy to keep consumers and potential competitors at bay more than it’s a requirement for new models.

I hope I am wrong, but I am not holding my breath.

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[-] kerryh8er04@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 week ago

It looks like many AI skeptics have been having a change of heart and maybe some growing dread. You spend the time and it streamlines through the tough problem and it cracks firmware, builds valid specs, reverse engineer enterprise software, it’s been an interesting week.

In some ways I think it might be good, perhaps a significant decrease in proprietary prison cage ecosystems. But at the same time, I have an ever growing dread that we are jumping off the knowledge cliff. The most experienced people are seeing revolutionary productivity, while the least experienced are gaining more capability without the foundational knowledge.

The future may have students who learn nothing, know nothing, and worse they will be happy with nothing.

I’m ready to unplug and live a near Amish lifestyle. Fuck modernity.

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[-] TeaWithDani@lemmy.world 52 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Linux Foundation has financial backers. He's gotta give them lip service to keep them excited and happy. Anthropic is now a Gold Member. Oracle, Microsoft, Google, Meta, Amazon are all Platinum Members.

FOSS has always been subject to corporate meddling in their governance. There's a reason we call it Linux and not GNU-Linux. GNU gets no money so GNU goes nowhere.

Linus gives a headline using agents, Linux gets millions to continue doing real work. That's the game they are playing, for better or worse.

[-] baatliwala@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago

Linus regularly posted on Google+, it's more like he himself isn't that into foss and sees everything as a utility to use

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[-] Ricaz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Nobody can prove this is the case. Linus sees coding LLMs as an inevitable evolution and compares them to what compilers were for Assembly.

I don't personally think this particular use of LLMs is unethical, but using open models would definitely improve the look.

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[-] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 48 points 1 week ago

AI like this is very quickly becoming the One Ring in my mind. Like there’s a bunch of people who have convinced themselves that they can use this plagiarism box in a good way, that the outcome will somehow justify the means. But the reality is that this machine was created by evil for evil reasons and as it stands right now you can’t use Claude or ChatGPT or any of that shit and not participate in the plagiarism, in the outright theft of all of the art and creativity of humanity, and the destruction of our environment.

I wish that more people would understand that the jump from the novelty of Watson beating Ken Jennings on Jeopardy to here wasn’t technological innovation. It was purely capitalism.

[-] GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 49 points 1 week ago

plagiarism

outright theft

It frustrates me to see that people are suddenly protective of some kind of intellectual property right of people to control creations after they've been created.

I'm pretty skeptical of AI and have my doubts that it will be a net good, but I'm definitely not gonna suddenly be pro-copyright as part of that fight. Copyright has traditionally been used to entrench corporate interests, and strengthening those protections isn't going to suddenly win a fight against some kind of AI dystopia.

[-] TheAgeOfSuperboredom@lemmy.ca 38 points 1 week ago

I think it's more about the unequal application if those laws. People have had their lives ruined for sharing an mp3. These companies infringe on literally everything and they get rich.

I bet the next step is that the folks vibe coding emulators and replacements for major software suites are going to get serious fines, while artists are going to continue to get ripped off in the name of "innovation".

[-] atomicbocks@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 week ago

This is very much the problem I have. We have officially reached the point where the average artist on Deviant Art has less intellectual property rights than the average even LLC let alone megacorp like Disney.

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[-] AAA@feddit.org 26 points 1 week ago

People are not "suddenly protective of some kind of intellectual property". Instead they wonder why some companies can violate those rules on an unprecedented scale whiteout consequences.

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[-] juipeltje@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

Well i think the issue is if licenses become worthless then that's also bad for the GPL

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[-] floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I am not sure it was initially created for evil, I do believe that its discovery was mostly academic and in that it was, and still is, a pretty significant/interesting one. It was very quickly and very strongly made into the perfect weapon for the information age for sure, but i doubt that the original researchers wanted that, or just really thought of the implications outside of information theory. But it was indeed Google, surveillance capitalism incarnate, that initially gifted transformers to the world and kickstarted the whole thing...

Edit: I realised that I inadvertently made this comment about "AI" by way of pronouns when I'm really talking about LLMs. Google of course did not invent AI, and I more strongly disagree that AI in its actual sense was invented for or is inherently evil.

[-] christian@lemmy.ml 30 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I actually do think that someone who already has multiple decades of experience in programming without using AI is probably not producing shoddier code after incorporating it into their workflow. Important modern software projects, whose backbones are programmers fitting that description, aren't going to be worse in the present because of Claude usage. I remain strongly against it though, because normalizing its usage guarantees the future won't have programmers that fit that description running the shows.

I think this can be framed as a statement about generative AI in general: If you think AI has been making everything shittier today, just wait until you see what it's been doing to everything tomorrow.

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[-] likebudda@reddthat.com 25 points 1 week ago

Nobody freaks out when skilled programmers/professionals use AI, it's actually a tool for them and not full-on skill substitution.

[-] thingsiplay@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 week ago

Nobody freaks out when skilled programmers/professionals use AI

Wrong. Because there are inherent problems with ethics, such as data it has been trained on and licensing questions. Also using LLM might decrease your competence over time. This also gives too much power to those few companies who control what data and logic the Ai is fed with. Even skilled programmers, professionals or not, get lazy.

BTW I am not 100% anti Ai, but I'm not a pro vibe. I think its fine the way some developers use Ai tools. But regardless how it is used, the ethical and licensing questions remain.

[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 8 points 1 week ago

Yeah, of all the people out there using Claude, he's the absolute least worrisome. He'll read the whole thing, and if he doesn't like anything at all that it does, he won't let it do it.

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[-] stinkytofuisgood@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 week ago

AI ethics aside (but not discounted overall), if there's one person I trust above all others to use an LLM to assist in coding properly, it's Linus Torvalds.

[-] PetteriPano@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

In my experience LLMs have been great at implementing solved problems that it has been trained on.

I've built a low-level media system that AFAIK exists in one 20yo unmaintained open sourced version, and ~6 proprietary versions. Even with clear specifications and baby steps Opus had a very hard time getting functional code.

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[-] uszo165@futurology.today 16 points 1 week ago

How much has he dumbed down his capabilities already? When will he replace himself by an LLM?

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[-] CoconutLove@lemmy.today 13 points 1 week ago

Lemmy is gonna lose its mind. Lmao!

[-] maxihuenu@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 week ago
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[-] greedytacothief@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 week ago

Linus has said that he reads compiler output. I have no doubt that he reads the code, I'm not particularly worried about bad code.

[-] grrgyle@slrpnk.net 17 points 1 week ago

I just hope he doesn't get lazy and brainrotted like I've seen happen with coworkers. People who used to call themselves "software craftsmen" now shipping 1k+ line changesets with fully generated documentation.

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[-] custom_username@reddthat.com 9 points 1 week ago

I can't wait for a base linux install to be 60 GB of slop, like windows.

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this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2026
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