ToastedPlanet

If any neoliberal can't get on board that neoliberalism is dead, then obviously they are no use to us. But they are an easier pool of people to convince than the fascists who want to kill us. And if the Democratic Party still exists in future elections and there somehow are future elections, both seem unlikely, it's still worth voting for them because it gives us time to get a populist campaign off the ground assuming there isn't already one that's ready to go. edit: typo

That's all true. But her campaign is the tool that we had in that moment. We did it before with Biden. We could have done it again with Harris. In the months leading up to the election we've got to care less about the quality of our tool and more how we use it. We can push the Democrats all we want further to the left up until then.

But the campaign we get after the DNC convention is the campaign we have to use. Some people couldn't put aside their moral self-image to do that. Now they're beating a dead horse, when Trump has threatened to send those Democrats to prison. We could all be heading to death camps starting next year, and I'm hoping I can reach some people to get their heads in the game before that.

Neoliberal ideology leads to fascism. The actual neoliberals themselves are not fascists. We can work with neoliberals. The problem with scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds is that it's a mindset that creates enemies out of people who are our allies.

Don't get me wrong. Neoliberals need to abandon their ideology in favor of socialism. And a populist narrative wouldn't hurt the Democrats either. But if we blind ourselves to the difference between neoliberals and fascists, we are making things harder for ourselves.

I think we actually agree on this, we just phrase it slightly differently.

I mean finding ways to attack the MAGA movement that convinces people to vote for Harris. There are people on lemmy who aren't as politically engaged or as far left as we would hope. But more importantly, this is a space to spread ideas which can then be spread to the wider internet.

Biden is complicit, because he's the president and it was his decision. She's the vice president, who does not have that power, so she's not.

We have a democracy for as long as we can keep it. There's a good chance we just lost it. There's no sense in giving up our agency because neoliberals are institutionalists. We knew what the Democrats were. Our options this cycle ended up being Harris or fascism. The goal was to get Harris elected to stop fascism for four more years. Instead of doing everything in their power to help get Harris elected, accelerationists did everything in their power to sink Harris's campaign. We broke our only tool over our knee and threw it away because it wasn't a better tool. Doing so wasn't useful. edit: typo

Now people are beating a dead horse. Neoliberals are neoliberals. Fascists are fascists. Spend this energy attacking the MAGA movement.

I highly recommend you swap out subjective moral reasoning for utility. You've already convinced yourself that it is morally right that we all go to the death camps. But it's not useful. There's a chance we do something that's useful between now and the death camps, but not if we care about being decent people more than we care about people.

I guess I forgot some people knew what to expect from a second Trump term and would plan accordingly. It would have been nice if this guy had sat these people down and had this talk before the election.

Biden wasn't running for president. Harris wanted to end the war. Trump wanted Israel to finish the job. Accelerationist rhetoric hurt the Democratic Party's chances of winning at the expense of your goal to help the Palestinians. Now the genocide will be allowed to continue indefinitely.

You're free to debilitate yourself as much as you want. Could you like, stop though. Please?

At best this is confusing cycling the fascist drain as a repeating pattern. At worst it is apathy masquerading as insight. Fascists kill people in death camps and don't hold democratic elections. We've held on this long because we've been paddling against the current. Millions of people stopped paddling this election. Now we're hoping fascist incompetence clogs the drain long enough for us to get away.

We're going to be lucky to get another election. If we still have a democracy the effects of this next Trump term will outlive the next four years.

Trump got three justices onto the Supreme Court in his first term. These aren't going to go in and out of power. They are going to sit there until they die. Trump could get another three Supreme Court nominations confirmed in this next term. Their influence is going to shape this country for thirty years or more.

He promised to jail his political opponents. The Democratic Party might not exist in four years and if does it will probably have shifted to the right. They won't be a moderate challenger in any sense.

An oligarchy of billionaires has rallied around Trump as dictator. Project 2025 is going to give Trump an actionable agenda and an army of loyalists in government positions to execute it for him. Republicans control the Senate and are on track to take the House. The Republicans want to shape this country for decades to come.

All of this turns the discourse around climate change on it's head. Our models of what could happen are typically based on climate admissions staying the same or with efforts to mitigate them. Now we have an incoming administration who are going to pollute as much as possible. That's not a repeating pattern. It's a self-destructive process that ends with billionaires living in their apocalypse bunkers and the rest of us dead.

Wow, the turn around time on that was fast.

Lashing out against neoliberals isn't useful. The MAGA movement are the fascists.

Cuba has the right idea with socialism. Cuba's elections are a good sign they are moving in the right direction, but they still have a ways to go. For starters, they need more than one candidate per office and citizens need to be able to run without having to be nominated by the Communist Party controlled committees.