this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2024
559 points (99.5% liked)

Technology

58577 readers
4438 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] astrsk@fedia.io 145 points 16 hours ago (6 children)

Apple and Amazon next please.

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

Personally I would prefer they break up all the companies that produce, distribute, and sell our food.

Frankly, Sinclair Broadcast Group needs to be shattered most urgently.

[–] CrazyLikeGollum@lemmy.world 105 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

And Microsoft for monopoly reasons.

Add AT&T, Time-Warner, and all of the other ISPs that own streaming platforms for anticompetitive reasons.

[–] Enkrod@feddit.org 7 points 6 hours ago

Uhh, do Disney!

[–] xkbx@startrek.website 29 points 15 hours ago (2 children)
[–] TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org 22 points 13 hours ago

Ma Bell: "Just do a T-1000, pull yourself back together slowly over a decade or two."

Fuck IE, the real removed is having a monopoly over running win32/64 apps and enterprise single sign on.

[–] breadsmasher@lemmy.world 18 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (5 children)

Serious question as I guess I am unaware - What does apple have a monopoly on?

edit - thanks to everyone for the detailed responses! Much appreciated

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 41 points 13 hours ago

Apple engages in anti competitive practices, I'm not sure they need to be broken up as much as the US needs to follow the EU and mandate third party app stores, standard connectors, and interoperability.

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 26 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

The popular argument I've heard is that they have a vertical integration model which has been deemed monopolistic within other industries in the past.

The common example that would have been used is the old Hollywood studio system, when studios not only owned their lots where the movies were made, but they handled all of the distribution, owned most of the theaters where the films would premiere, owned their own film formats, and locked their big-name stars into contracts which had strict non-compete agreements.

It wasn't impossible to be an independent theater owner and have the ability to choose what films you wanted to show, but it was very hard and required accepting a number of conditions:

  • You will pay more for movies than the studio-owned theaters effectively do, which means your tickets need to be more expensive to pay your costs.
  • You are subjected to "block booking", where you can't show only popular movies, you are also forced to buy a studio's less popular films as bundles and give them appropriate screen time or the studios won't sell.
  • You also need to buy a studio's proprietary projection equipment, because it is made intentionally incompatible with the formats of other studios.

The studio system was eventually deemed monopolistic by the US Supreme Court in their ruling US v. Paramount, and that allowed independent theaters to thrive and for artists to switch to contract work without the strict non-compete agreements. But I have to say "the common example that would have been used," because the conservative-stacked Supreme Court revisited their ruling in US v. Paramount that banned the vertical integration model in Hollywood and decided it was no longer needed, so studios are once again free to resume those old practices if they wish.

So in the case of Apple, the monopoly criticism applies to their vertical integration model which draws some parallels to the old Hollywood studio system that was once deemed monopolistic:

  • Apple designs and produces their own devices.
  • Apple produces their own operating systems, which are exclusive to those devices.
  • Apple produces their own suite of core apps, which are given preferential treatment by their operating systems.
  • Apple develops their own technology standards, which are not available to third parties without additional licensing fees (e.g. the Lightning connector, up until the EU forced them to start adopting USB-C).
  • Apple hosts their own app store, which is the only app distribution method allowed on their mobile platforms.
  • Apple requires third-party apps to agree to their store's terms to be published on the platform, which prohibits any pricing model in which Apple does not get a cut.

For third-party app developers, it means that even if you have your own revenue model beyond Apple's involvement, you are not allowed to extend that to your iOS app without giving Apple their cut, which is why you see so many apps now just declaring that they are "for subscribers" without allowing you to subscribe in the app or giving instructions for where to subscribe. And it's not possible to publish an app on iOS without going through Apple's store and agreeing to their business model because Apple does not allow third-party app stores and heavily restricts sideloading.

Because Apple also gives preferential treatment to their own apps, it is hard to be "as good" as their own offerings, and there will always be a risk of Apple deciding to make some new category of app for a use case that third-parties currently satisfy but may get shut out of.

[–] _bcron_@lemmy.world 17 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Sometimes a writer will use what they feel is a more recognizable but 'technically incorrect' word as a colloquialism for a less-used term that's more accurate, and then go into more detail in the article, but it's good and proper to wrap that colloquialism in apostrophes ('air quotes').

But in this specific case, it was ruled that Google has a monopoly on general website searches and that they have utilized a variety of anti-competitive practices to bolster their presence as such.

Not dissimilar to Microsoft's antitrust case in the late 90s, specifically regarding Internet Explorer. It was a very small chunk of a much larger antitrust suit but they were found to have used Windows in order to stifle competition for web browsers and maintain their standing as the dominant browser (they also leveraged their market share for Windows and IE with OEMs and ISPs respectively but I'm digressing).

Microsoft was ordered to split, or spin off their browser business into a different entity, but they settled with DOJ on appeal (probably what we'll see come of this - Google will probably make a big long list of things they will change or no longer engage in, and the government will feel as though all those changes will be sufficient remedy)

[–] verity_kindle@sh.itjust.works 2 points 13 hours ago

Ah, thank you for the sauce

[–] Virkkunen@fedia.io 15 points 15 hours ago

Nothing, really. Usually in the USA Apple escapes this type of rulings because they don't have a monopoly on anything and/or because it's argued they build the hardware for which their software run on so there isn't anti competition (which in my opinion is pure bullshit, but what can I do?)

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 2 points 10 hours ago (4 children)

What exactly does Apple have a monopoly over? Or Amazon? Both have plenty of competition, while, let's be honest, Google cornered a segment the market really well with Search + Chrome. Google is basically dictating direction of Web based standards towards an ad-driven, zero-privacy, centralized internet.

If anything, after Google it should be Microsoft again.

[–] WoodScientist@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

Something you should keep in mind is that being a monopoly is not illegal, and it never has been. If you make a great widget and, through honest competition, corner that widget market, that's perfectly legal.

What ISN'T legal is using your market power to engage in anti-competitive behavior. It's not illegal for Apple to dominate the phone market. It is likely illegal for Apple to use its dominance of the phone market to prohibit competing app stores from being installed on their phones. That is Apple operating in two distinct businesses - a phone manufacturer and a software retailer. Apple is using its market dominance as a phone manufacturer to gain an unfair advantage as a software retailer.

This is a pretty damning violation of federal antitrust law.

[–] firadin@lemmy.world 6 points 9 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Fermion@feddit.nl 6 points 6 hours ago

Prime video should also have to sink or swim on its own.

[–] iknowitwheniseeit@lemmynsfw.com 3 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Again? I guess I missed Microsoft being impacted in any way. 🤔

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 1 points 7 hours ago

They've creeped back from another angle after IE was killed.

[–] TheGalacticVoid@lemm.ee 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I don't see Amazon as a monopoly, but as far as Apple goes, they currently hold the majority of phone sales in the US. A big reason for that is that they have a history of artificially preventing you from using certain device features with non-Apple products or services. iMessage is a good example as it took an order from China for Apple to add the RCS messaging standard that Android phones have had for years. Another example is that, while music apps on Android can use Google Assistant features, only Apple Music can utilize Siri features on iOS.

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 2 points 7 hours ago

Sounds like regulations are in order, yes. EU (and ironically China) doing the good work. But it's hardly a monopoly. They just have a successful product, like it or not.

[–] 4am@lemm.ee 4 points 13 hours ago

Apple

The return of Claris!