this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2024
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[–] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 3 points 33 minutes ago

I'll be ecstatic if that happens, but I won't hold my breath. It should have been done a long time ago for so many mega corpos, but here we are.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 10 points 4 hours ago

Shit or get off the pot.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 86 points 9 hours ago (4 children)

DoJ is edging y'all too hard here

I will believe it when I see it

[–] douglasg14b@lemmy.world 13 points 6 hours ago

They have the concept of a antitrust breakup.

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 17 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (2 children)

Agreed.

No f'in way this happens, especially not in the same week when Kamala Harris goes on national TV to say she's a capitalist.

With that said, I still hope they try. It should be inconvenient at least to run a monopoly.

[–] helenslunch@feddit.nl 4 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

especially not in the same week when Kamala Harris goes on national TV to say she's a capitalist.

You can rest assured that that is a meticulously prepared statement to curry favor and win elections in specific areas, and nothing to do with her personal ideology or how she will run things as President.

[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago

I'd love to believe that, but Democrats have ruled as pro-corporate assholes for 40 years now. The last Dem we had with the balls to oppose corporate rule was LBJ.

[–] TeenieBopper@lemmy.world 5 points 4 hours ago

Look, I'm voting for Harris, and even as a leftist I'm half excited by it. But let's not pretend a mainstream democratic party politician is anything other than a capitalist. She might have good policy ideas, ones that will genuinely help people, but she's still a capitalist.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 8 points 8 hours ago

It should be inconvenient at least to run a monopoly.

The best our government can do is make mega corpos pay lawyers ... So at least we got some extra jobs out of it 🤡

Since they are creating extra jobs shouldn't government reward them with state aid for it?!

[–] SeattleRain@lemmy.world 6 points 8 hours ago

The trail went really really badly for Google. I know it's trendy to be all nihilist with regards to government competence but they'd make way more other powerful corporations angry if they didn't break up Google.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago

Considering

Investigating

Discussing

Will put forward a possibility of

Listen, its this government or we go with the GOP version where its just the MOVE bombing every couple of weeks, while the DOJ issues briefs about busting open a child's testicles to get information out of his father.

Do Nothing or Do Something Awful. Those are your choices.

[–] JustZ@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

Didn't Google already break up? It's called Alphabet now.

[–] Peffse@lemmy.world 38 points 9 hours ago

Google saw this coming years ago. That's why they restructured, clearly defining their different services, and became Alphabet.

[–] IcyToes@sh.itjust.works 40 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (3 children)

As much as I want this to happen, I fear it'll drag on for years and then never happen or end up watered down where they split the company and manage them independently (a bit like BT in the UK but still owned by Alphabet.

[–] The_v@lemmy.world 28 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

The last major antitrust action on this scale in the U.S. 8 years to process.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_the_Bell_System

This type of lawsuit is why the billionaire bro's are backing the senile rapist and felon. Making them play somewhat fair ruins their business plan.

[–] firadin@lemmy.world 10 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

A major issue for the US is that when the president changes, the DOJ can simply elect to stop processing the suit. It's hard to get 8 years of uninterrupted movement on an action like this.

[–] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 7 points 7 hours ago

Msft under W for instance.

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[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 10 hours ago

Yeah I will believe it when I see it. I'm not convinced that actual Teddy Roosevelt-style "trust busting" is something that is even possible in the modern US.

[–] captainWhatsHisName@lemm.ee 4 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

It might happen if Harris wins

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 1 points 4 hours ago

Trump will probably give them more money to be a monopoly.

[–] astrsk@fedia.io 140 points 14 hours ago (6 children)

Apple and Amazon next please.

[–] roofuskit@lemmy.world 1 points 45 minutes ago

Personally I would prefer they break up all the companies that produce, distribute, and sell our food.

Frankly, Sinclair Broadcast Group needs to be shattered most urgently.

[–] CrazyLikeGollum@lemmy.world 102 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

And Microsoft for monopoly reasons.

Add AT&T, Time-Warner, and all of the other ISPs that own streaming platforms for anticompetitive reasons.

[–] Enkrod@feddit.org 5 points 4 hours ago

Uhh, do Disney!

[–] xkbx@startrek.website 27 points 13 hours ago (2 children)
[–] TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org 21 points 11 hours ago

Ma Bell: "Just do a T-1000, pull yourself back together slowly over a decade or two."

Fuck IE, the real removed is having a monopoly over running win32/64 apps and enterprise single sign on.

[–] breadsmasher@lemmy.world 18 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (5 children)

Serious question as I guess I am unaware - What does apple have a monopoly on?

edit - thanks to everyone for the detailed responses! Much appreciated

[–] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 38 points 11 hours ago

Apple engages in anti competitive practices, I'm not sure they need to be broken up as much as the US needs to follow the EU and mandate third party app stores, standard connectors, and interoperability.

[–] Stovetop@lemmy.world 26 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

The popular argument I've heard is that they have a vertical integration model which has been deemed monopolistic within other industries in the past.

The common example that would have been used is the old Hollywood studio system, when studios not only owned their lots where the movies were made, but they handled all of the distribution, owned most of the theaters where the films would premiere, owned their own film formats, and locked their big-name stars into contracts which had strict non-compete agreements.

It wasn't impossible to be an independent theater owner and have the ability to choose what films you wanted to show, but it was very hard and required accepting a number of conditions:

  • You will pay more for movies than the studio-owned theaters effectively do, which means your tickets need to be more expensive to pay your costs.
  • You are subjected to "block booking", where you can't show only popular movies, you are also forced to buy a studio's less popular films as bundles and give them appropriate screen time or the studios won't sell.
  • You also need to buy a studio's proprietary projection equipment, because it is made intentionally incompatible with the formats of other studios.

The studio system was eventually deemed monopolistic by the US Supreme Court in their ruling US v. Paramount, and that allowed independent theaters to thrive and for artists to switch to contract work without the strict non-compete agreements. But I have to say "the common example that would have been used," because the conservative-stacked Supreme Court revisited their ruling in US v. Paramount that banned the vertical integration model in Hollywood and decided it was no longer needed, so studios are once again free to resume those old practices if they wish.

So in the case of Apple, the monopoly criticism applies to their vertical integration model which draws some parallels to the old Hollywood studio system that was once deemed monopolistic:

  • Apple designs and produces their own devices.
  • Apple produces their own operating systems, which are exclusive to those devices.
  • Apple produces their own suite of core apps, which are given preferential treatment by their operating systems.
  • Apple develops their own technology standards, which are not available to third parties without additional licensing fees (e.g. the Lightning connector, up until the EU forced them to start adopting USB-C).
  • Apple hosts their own app store, which is the only app distribution method allowed on their mobile platforms.
  • Apple requires third-party apps to agree to their store's terms to be published on the platform, which prohibits any pricing model in which Apple does not get a cut.

For third-party app developers, it means that even if you have your own revenue model beyond Apple's involvement, you are not allowed to extend that to your iOS app without giving Apple their cut, which is why you see so many apps now just declaring that they are "for subscribers" without allowing you to subscribe in the app or giving instructions for where to subscribe. And it's not possible to publish an app on iOS without going through Apple's store and agreeing to their business model because Apple does not allow third-party app stores and heavily restricts sideloading.

Because Apple also gives preferential treatment to their own apps, it is hard to be "as good" as their own offerings, and there will always be a risk of Apple deciding to make some new category of app for a use case that third-parties currently satisfy but may get shut out of.

[–] _bcron_@lemmy.world 17 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Sometimes a writer will use what they feel is a more recognizable but 'technically incorrect' word as a colloquialism for a less-used term that's more accurate, and then go into more detail in the article, but it's good and proper to wrap that colloquialism in apostrophes ('air quotes').

But in this specific case, it was ruled that Google has a monopoly on general website searches and that they have utilized a variety of anti-competitive practices to bolster their presence as such.

Not dissimilar to Microsoft's antitrust case in the late 90s, specifically regarding Internet Explorer. It was a very small chunk of a much larger antitrust suit but they were found to have used Windows in order to stifle competition for web browsers and maintain their standing as the dominant browser (they also leveraged their market share for Windows and IE with OEMs and ISPs respectively but I'm digressing).

Microsoft was ordered to split, or spin off their browser business into a different entity, but they settled with DOJ on appeal (probably what we'll see come of this - Google will probably make a big long list of things they will change or no longer engage in, and the government will feel as though all those changes will be sufficient remedy)

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[–] Virkkunen@fedia.io 15 points 13 hours ago

Nothing, really. Usually in the USA Apple escapes this type of rulings because they don't have a monopoly on anything and/or because it's argued they build the hardware for which their software run on so there isn't anti competition (which in my opinion is pure bullshit, but what can I do?)

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[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 hours ago (4 children)

What exactly does Apple have a monopoly over? Or Amazon? Both have plenty of competition, while, let's be honest, Google cornered a segment the market really well with Search + Chrome. Google is basically dictating direction of Web based standards towards an ad-driven, zero-privacy, centralized internet.

If anything, after Google it should be Microsoft again.

[–] WoodScientist@lemmy.world 2 points 56 minutes ago

Something you should keep in mind is that being a monopoly is not illegal, and it never has been. If you make a great widget and, through honest competition, corner that widget market, that's perfectly legal.

What ISN'T legal is using your market power to engage in anti-competitive behavior. It's not illegal for Apple to dominate the phone market. It is likely illegal for Apple to use its dominance of the phone market to prohibit competing app stores from being installed on their phones. That is Apple operating in two distinct businesses - a phone manufacturer and a software retailer. Apple is using its market dominance as a phone manufacturer to gain an unfair advantage as a software retailer.

This is a pretty damning violation of federal antitrust law.

[–] firadin@lemmy.world 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Split AWS and Amazon retail.

[–] Fermion@feddit.nl 4 points 4 hours ago

Prime video should also have to sink or swim on its own.

[–] iknowitwheniseeit@lemmynsfw.com 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Again? I guess I missed Microsoft being impacted in any way. 🤔

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 hours ago

They've creeped back from another angle after IE was killed.

[–] TheGalacticVoid@lemm.ee 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I don't see Amazon as a monopoly, but as far as Apple goes, they currently hold the majority of phone sales in the US. A big reason for that is that they have a history of artificially preventing you from using certain device features with non-Apple products or services. iMessage is a good example as it took an order from China for Apple to add the RCS messaging standard that Android phones have had for years. Another example is that, while music apps on Android can use Google Assistant features, only Apple Music can utilize Siri features on iOS.

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 2 points 5 hours ago

Sounds like regulations are in order, yes. EU (and ironically China) doing the good work. But it's hardly a monopoly. They just have a successful product, like it or not.

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[–] uberdroog@lemmy.world 41 points 13 hours ago

Do EVERY other industry next.

[–] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world -2 points 3 hours ago

If they ruin Google Fiber I will personally de-bone every one of those motherfuckers.

[–] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 17 points 11 hours ago

Excellent! Break them up.

[–] Dasnap@lemmy.world 17 points 14 hours ago (9 children)

Any guesses on how this would affect Android and Firefox?

I'm not 100% on how the Android business works so I'm not sure how important Goggle's involvement is.

Firefox relies on Google's 'default search engine' bribe quite a lot, and they might not be able to offer that anymore(?)

[–] secretfoxtail@lemmy.ca 22 points 13 hours ago

Android has been largely gutted and depends more and more on google play services, with few exceptions like some AOSP-based roms like lineageos, iodeOS, etc

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[–] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 3 points 10 hours ago (1 children)
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