this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2023
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Relaxed section for discussion and debate that doesn't fit anywhere else. Whether it's advice, how your week is going, a link that's at the back of your mind, or something like that, it can likely go here.
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I have to say that I had a really rough whiplash when I saw what kind of communities the admins of lemmy have created and are maintaining (I guess that is what you mean by tankies). Absolutely shocked that this is the credo of people making this "open/free/not controlled by company" software. A company might be preferable at this point >.>
These 2 people are the ones we're supposed to put the faith into to maintain and develop the framework and architecture for all these potential sites? If we fund lemmy we fund them, if they give up then nobody else is probably going to take over, it sounds like a disaster just waiting to happen.
And okay, nice to hear that beehaw is blocking those communities but we're still federated with everything else there, if I'm understanding it correctly, and it's the same users that can easily cross between the instances? That's not very reassuring either.
Considering that Reddit's capitalist shenanigans is what brought redditors here, having socialist devs is not necessarily a bad thing.
You'd probably also be shocked at how many communists are strongly involved in FOSS development, and just how nice and great people they are on average.
In any case, don't worry too much about it, their software is open source so if they suddenly turn evil, a fork is enough to fix it.
Socialism is not the same as what's going on here. Socialism means you believe in good for the common citizen, not denying reality and wishing death and destruction on peaceful people.
Minor correction, socialism has one definition and one definition only: worker ownership of the means of production
I support that definition, but it's false, unconstructive and arrogant to declare it's the only one. It never has been. It's not even Marx's definition, which is undoubtedly an extremely influential one throughout history. This is the kind of dogmatism I'd expect from a tankie.
Socialism is a widespread global phenomenon with hundreds of variants and competing theories from a range of historical underpinnings. There never has been one definition, not even back in the 1800s.
Eh, agree to disagree
While I have to admit that I've been frustrated by the tankies during my short stay on lemmy.ml, I don't think that's a fair representation of their views.
Most I believe seem frustrated by a western world that seem entirely too content in accepting a narrative heavily biased in favor of laissez-faire capitalism and right wing narratives, to the extent that it has blinded them to the cruelty of regimes in China and Russia.
I think that in order to foster a fruitful discussion here and avoid the trenches that often form between differing political views on the web, trying first to understand and empathise with an opposing view is crucial. It's been a good heuristic for me at least, except in those cases where there is zero intention of even trying to understand each other (where just ignoring works well).
I think it is a huge culture shock for redditors who are used to the idea of extremists being the alt right, and the ones that they are used to mainly associating with hate speech and being in agreement they are an unsavory group.
Particularly with a lot of redditors who joined lemmy just looking for a reddit alternative for their hobbies. Usually in reddit when you hear someone say they don't want politics the image that comes to mind is some alt right fascist who get hung up on how other people live their personal life and complain about not being able to use hate speech.
So encountering supposed liberals who are very reminiscent of the alt right is incredibly jarring. It's leading to some going wait...what?...
quick plug for /c/leftistinfighting
I am not worried about socialism, I am personally anti-capitalist too, at least in theory. I am worried about their extreme anti-NATO and seemingly pro-putin propaganda. If they kept these private I also wouldn't mind it but they literally named the tech after their ideals. Ignoring these enormous red flags seems naive.
Or maybe you're right - I'm misreading the situation and people like me who are bothered by that just shouldn't be here in the first place, wrong place for us.
I am not going to get into this discussion since we can't know what will or wont happen but I am sure that maintaining a project like this requires much more than committing a bugfix to a fork.
Yep, it's kind of like finding out something you use is made by antivaxers, flat earthers, holocaust deniers. Broad political ideology such as supporting communism isn't an issue at all, but finding out some of them hold what feels very reminiscent of alt right extremists is eyebrow raising.
You're very right, it makes me a bit wary, especially with uh, familial experience with authoriarian rulers.
Practically all modern technology stems from some pretty brutal history and a hell of a lot of colonialism. I think being informed is important but in most cases there's exceedingly little you can do with this information.
Not using it is an option for something like social media. If this place turned out to be for instance a stormfront run one then it'd definitely be an easy pass without hesitation. At this point I'm new to this type of service so seeing how disconnected and independent from the problem players each instance is.
Apologies if it was unclear, I was directing the comment at the technology itself. You always can choose to use or not use an implementation of said technology for moral reasons.
Unfortunately that's kind of a reality regarding FOSS in general. Platforms focused on smaller-scale moderation and a lack of overarching control first attract people who're rightfully kicked off of everything else, or are really paranoid that they will be.