Lefty Memes
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
- Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
view the rest of the comments
This is false. Only Israel does not want a two state solution. Even Hamas accepted it in 2017.
This is what people mean with enlightened centrism. There are no two sides preventing peace. There is only Israel preventing peace.
I think we can track down several times two state option was on the table, starting as early as 68
Very cool and false. But now everyone accepts it except Israel.
What is the benefit from lying? I don't get it. This is all basic info.
It was also on the table at Camp David.
How does that prove they're lying about Israel currently not supporting it?
Right now they're wanting to just take the land after eliminating the people who lived there
Because I said it was on the table several times in the past. And they wrote:
???
Ok now explain why Israel does not accept the deal since Hamas does accept it.
I do not have to read any history to disprove your lies. I can open the news right now.
You are correct. Israel, in the present does not accept the two state solution. Hence why I was talking about the past.
Why was it rejected by PLO when it was on the table?.
Show me where Hamas is open to a two state solution.
What is the meaning of "from the river to the sea"
You are trying to change the topic so hard.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/5/2/hamas-accepts-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders
The 2017 Hamas charter is openly available on the Internet, and it says it still doesn't recognise Israel as a state and strive for "complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea." This is not really a two-state solution. Two states recognise each other's right to exist if this is indeed a two state solution.
Of course Hamas is not stupid like the PA. They will not recognize Israel unless Israel agrees to a two state solution.
Your arguments are the most generic Hasbara so I am not assuming you are speaking in good faith.
Hamas stated "from the river to the sea" in that charter you yourself mentioned. That could not be any more ambiguous.
Yes of course they have the right to regain all their stolen land unless Israel wants to accept a deal. What is your point exactly?
Read this before typing your next comment
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/5/2/hamas-accepts-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders
They've pretty explicitly been aiming for a Palestinian state in the territories occupied since 1967. And not just recently, proposals for a permanent ceasefire (which sets the first steps towards recognition and normalization of relations) with Israel under these conditions go back to 1999. Conveniently, both Israel and the US didn't find it necessary to respond.
Hamas still doesn't recognise Israel, do they?
Does Israel recognize West Bank as Palestine?
From the article you linked:
Exactly the point. Both sides need to recognise each other. This isn't a sports competition. It doesn't require a PhD to figure that one out.
The PA recognizes Israel. What did that give them?
OK you don't even know what the PA is. Consider not having any opinions.
So do you support Hamas taking foreign hostages who have no dog in the race? What is your opinion on October 7 attack?
No answer quick change the subject. Zionists only response.
If by PA you mean Palestinian Authority, while they seem to have been spineless, how is Hamas taking foreign civilian hostages with no dog in the race promote Palestinian cause? What is your opinion on October 7 attack?
Answer the question. What did the PA gain by recognizing Israel?
I answered the question already. While PA have been spineless, they did not kill civilians. But you and your ilk then seem to wilfully ignore what Hamas did to civilians. Now answer me, do you and the other guy support Hamas' October 7 attack? Have other independence movements in other places killed civilians? By supporting Hamas, do you and the other guy don't support two state solution in essence and do not recognise Israel's right to exist?
The PA have not made any progress towards Palestinian statehood. If anything, they've been complicit in the slow Palestinian genocide.
Is that a serious question? I'd rather ask you to name a major independence movement that didn't. War is a bloody affair. Here's the US revolutionaries massacring pacifists, for example..
So did Israel, by the way. To prevent prisoners being taken, Israel killed a non-insignificant number of their own people, soldiers and civilian.
I do not condone the actions of October 7. But I'm not deluding myself into thinking there was another way. How would you tell the Palestinians to struggle for their freedom from occupation and violence? Just in 2018/19, during the Great March of Return, thousands peacefully marched in protest, reminiscent of the civil rights movement or Ghandi's protests, to demand the displaced Palestinians be allowed to return. They were gunned down in the hundreds.
Are you asking Palestinians to just lay down and die?
If you want a more nuanced take than I can provide, please watch this video by an Israeli, living close to the Gaza strip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt_1k7nSv1M
The Irish war of independence did not purposefully kill civilians. They only targeted British military personnel, and the British retaliate by killing Irish civilians, which proved to be to Ireland's PR advantage for international support for independence (you might mention the IRA in the 1960s to 90s, but that's a different story right after the establishment of the independent southern part of Ireland, in which the IRA activities had been condemned by the Irish government all throughout). And you mentioned Ghandi's peace movement for Indian independence, and yet somehow have a doublethink that it wasn't a major enough.
How about target military personnel only, and not kidnapping civilian hostages, especially foreign nationals with no dog in the race? It's not that hard to grasp.
Change the subject to October 7 quick. You got caught lying so you gotta pivot.
You claimed Hamas support two state solution, but then posted a link that directly contradict what you said (why do people post links they don't read and turns out it contradict what they say?) Now you redirect the conversation asking what two state solution had done to PA. While PA had been spineless, they did not kill civilians. Now, it sounds like you are misdirecting by trying to paint Hamas as pro-two state solution, but contradicted what you just said by posting a link that contradicted what you claim. Hamas is clearly anti-Israel and against two state solution, and it seems to me that you are too. Then now, does that mean you support October 7 attack?
No read the link
You also did not answer my question: do you support the October 7 attack?