73

This is a few weeks old, but I felt it is relevant here. Noticeably absent from the "speculation" as to the reasons fewer people in their 50's are working is the elephant in the room: Ageism. I gave up searching for work because it's painfully obvious my capability is not the issue. AARP has permanent support education for 50+ people trying to get hired.

All I hear about with respect to frustrations being unable to find a job is focused on the youngest, while it's the eldest that are being forced out at alarming rates. The worst part is we don't have any recovery path, and some of us are supporting adult children who can't find work.

We either navigated all the pratfalls life throws at us and have savings enough to "survive", or we didn't, and we become another near invisible member of the predominantly elder population of homeless standing by intersections hoping for a handout.

Next January possibly millions of over 50 people thrown out of work and unable to find any job (even minimum wage jobs) will lose their health coverage, since Medicaid begins requiring 20 hours per week of work to qualify.

We are well beyond "fearing dystopia" now. We've been living it for a decade, some would say longer.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 week ago

Yup. I've been thinking it's my autistic tendencies getting in the way of me being hired, but I most often see young people being hired for the positions I'm trying for and ageism has to be playing some role.

It's weird because I'm a much better worker and person than I was in my 20s.

Guys..... Just because there is a decline in people choosing to work, it does not mean more people are doing so because of ageism. First of all 50 and over have historically shared a disproportionately large chunk of the job market. Younger baby boomers and older genx just held onto their positions longer than prior generations. Now that they are getting older and their stock portfolios now represent a huge portion of middle and upper class wealth, they are finally choosing to retire.

If you look at the date people 45 and over have the lowest unemployment levels on the market, and they are being unemployed at the same pace as everyone else.

I think you guys are just experiencing the same issues everyone else is in a market where people are hiring less frequently and employees are staying in positions longer. You probably just aren't used to it compared to the younger generations where this has been a norm for their entire careers.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Perhaps the higher employment rate of 50+ is just based on them already having a job and keeping it.

What you want to look at is at people who are looking for a job.

Are 50+ year olds getting hired at lower rates than younger cohorts?

Edit: Hate to break it to you, but it looks like age discrimination against older workers is actually a thing:

https://www.eeoc.gov/chart-data-older-american-worker-age-discrimination-employment

Not saying you can't still have your little generational warfare thing if you want.

Perhaps the higher employment rate of 50+ is just based on them already having a job and keeping it.

Yes, that is one of the things I spoke about. That age bracket has experienced the most stable economy America has ever had and has thus experienced relatively low levels of unemployment.

What you want to look at is at people who are looking for a job.

That is the unemployment rate. Which they are the lowest bracket in.

Are 50+ year olds getting hired at lower rates than younger cohorts?

I haven't seen any evidence to support that?

https://www.eeoc.gov/chart-data-older-american-worker-age-discrimination-employment

Let's actually examine the statistics they are utilizing.

Chart 1: Older Workers Represent less than 5 Percent of New Hires in Most Establishments

Makes sense, they have the lowest unemployment rate, meaning they are searching for jobs less often.

The Older the Workers' Age Group, the Lower the Level of Education

Also makes sense..... Older generations did not have to achieve as high of an education to remain competitive.

A Third of Private Pension Plans Exclude Workers Hired at Age 55 and Over Half at Age 60

That's how pensions work....? Most people at age 55 and older are going to rollover their 401k into a IRA as most 401k require a set amount of time until they become vetted.

Long-Term Unemployment Falls More Heavily on the Older Worker

Yeah, makes sense. Older more experienced workers are able to hold out longer to find a job that matches their experience levels and pay expectations.

None of these statistics substantiate the claim that older people are being discriminated against.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 week ago

Okedoke. Try dodging this one, Neo.

I study hiring age discrimination under two different hiring procedures. In one, age is revealed simultaneously with other applicant information, and the job offer rates are much lower for older than for younger job applicants. In the second, interview selections are based on detailed, age-blind online applications, while subsequent interviews are not age-blind. In this case, older applicants are not underselected for interviews, but face a lower job offer rate after in-person interviews. The combined evidence is consistent with age discrimination. The smaller age difference in job offer rates under the second hiring procedure suggests that “blinding” part of the selection process may reduce discrimination.

https://jhr.uwpress.org/content/59/1/1

I would have to actually have access to the methodology of the experiment and their sample population and size to make an educated critique. There are a lot of different variables that could be at play.

I'm not trying to claim that age discrimination does not happen, just that whatever discrimination exists is not reflected by the available unemployment data.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It's enough of an issue that there's a law against it and a lot of people say it happens. Either there's a very complex situation that leads researchers, legislators and job seekers to say that ageism exists even though it doesn't, or, you know, it just does actually exist.

Occam's Razor would tend to point to the latter.

I suggest if you are going to go against the prevailing winds of evidence, you find some studies that shows that age discrimination in employment does NOT exist.

It's enough of an issue that there's a law against it and a lot of people say it happens.

A law that was passed in 1967.... When the largest voting block in history was starting to reach the age they wanted to protect.

I don't doubt that it happens, I'm sure older people face a lot of challenges in the work place. I just don't think that the data we currently have substantiates the claim that they are less hireable. Even if there was evidence to support that it would be hard to prove if they were discriminated against because of their actual age, or if it is because companies want to exploit young workers for less pay than a more experienced candidate would require.

researchers, legislators and job seekers to say that ageism exists

Or...... There are biases and alterior motivations that lead them to make those claims.

suggest if you are going to go against the prevailing winds of evidence, you find some studies that shows that age discrimination in employment does NOT exist.

Ah yes, Prove something doesnt exist. I'll do that right after I prove God doesn't exist.......that's not how science works my guy.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

Is ageism not a falsifiable theory? Enlighten me with your scientific wisdom.

The burden of evidence belongs to the person making a claim. I cannot provide evidence to prove a negative. If you are claiming ageism exists and is the actual reason you cannot find a job then you must provide the evidence to support that claim.

If I disagree with it, then I would offer an argument challenging the strength of that evidence, just how I've already done.

Say you went fishing and caught a new type of fish never before seen by humans. How would I provide proof you did not?

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

Read up on falsifiability:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

Then read up on Russell's Teapot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

I think you're repeating things you don't understand yet.

Again, in this scenario you are making a claim. I am not making the claim that ageism does not exist. You are claiming it is the reason for your unemployment. My rebuttal is that the available data surrounding unemployment does not substantiate that.

If I claimed ageism does not exist, it would be a falsifiable statement. You could give any example of ageism. However if I claimed ageism exists, it just isn't why you can't find a job, how would we test falsibility? How could I observe the reason why you are unemployed?

think you're repeating things you don't understand yet.

I think you are forgetting who originally made a claim?

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 week ago

Says the person who didn't know the unemployment rate included people looking for jobs.....

What you want to look at is at people who are looking for a job

This you?

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

Yes, first: let me congratulate you on your perseverance throughout the day on this topic.

Second, I did acknowledge that my first link was lacking exactly what I said we needed to establish bias, so I provided a study demonstrating exactly that: bias against older workers in the job application process.

Third, talking to you has been entertaining because you do offer a convincing simulation of thought, but the more I talk to you, the clearer it is that it is only a simulation and now I am done. Good day.

Even if you find some cases of bias, it doesn't mean that it's widespread, nor does it mean it affects you personally. Especially considering that your age bracket still has the lowest unemployment numbers.

only a simulation and now I am done. Good day.

I bet you need to conserve your energy to really handle being unemployed all day.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

First, finding examples of age bias obviously doesn’t automatically prove that age discrimination is widespread. But it also doesn’t make those examples irrelevant. If the question is whether age bias exists or can affect people in hiring and employment, you don’t need to prove that literally every employer is doing it. You need to establish that it happens often enough, and in circumstances important enough, to have a meaningful effect.

Second, the unemployment rate really isn’t enough to settle the question. Unemployment numbers tell you how many people are unemployed among people who are actively participating in the labor market. They don’t tell you everything about why someone is unemployed, how long they’ve been looking, whether they’ve stopped looking altogether, whether they’re underemployed, whether they’re being passed over for jobs they’re qualified for, or whether they’ve had to accept worse jobs than they otherwise would have.

That distinction matters alot with age. Someone can technically be employed while still experiencing age-related disadvantages in hiring, promotions, layoffs, compensation, career progression, etc. And someone who gets discouraged and leaves the labor force doesn’t necessarily show up as “unemployed” in the way you’re implying.

Third, saying “it doesn’t mean it affects you personally” is kind of beside the point unless the original argument was specifically claiming that every person in that age group is personally experiencing discrimination. Obviously an aggregate pattern doesn’t mean every individual experiences it. The existence of racial discrimination, sex discrimination, disability discrimination, or any other form of discrimination doesn’t mean every person in the relevant group has personally encountered it either.

And honestly, I’d flip the logic around. If someone says, “I’m seeing evidence that age can be a disadvantage in certain employment situations,” responding with “but your age group has low unemployment” doesn’t really address the claim. You’d need to show that the particular evidence is unrepresentative, that the effect disappears when controlling for relevant factors, or that the broader data contradicts it.

Theirs also a difference between saying “older workers have higher unemployment” and saying “older workers can face age-related barriers in the labor market.” Those are not the same proposition. In fact, older workers can have relatively low unemployment while still facing particular problems with getting hired after a job loss, changing careers, being perceived as overqualified, having higher salary expectations, or dealing with stereotypes about adaptability and technology.

So I’m not saying, “There are a couple examples, therefore everyone is discriminating against older workers.” That would obviously be an overreach. I’m saying that the existence and significance of age bias can’t really be dismissed just because the overall unemployment rate for an age bracket happens to be low.

If were going to talk about whether age bias is actually widespread, the useful question is what the broader evidence says about hiring outcomes, callback rates, longterm unemployment, earnings, layoffs, and labor force participation, not simply whether the headline unemployment rate for that demographic is low.

Christ, I thought you said you were done? Did we manage to find some spare time in your busy work schedule?

But it also doesn’t make those examples irrelevant. If the question is whether age bias exists or can affect people in hiring and employment, you don’t need to prove that literally every employer is doing it. You need to establish that it happens often enough, and in circumstances important enough, to have a meaningful effect.

Things you haven't done?

why someone is unemployed, how long they’ve been looking, whether they’ve stopped looking altogether, whether they’re underemployed, whether they’re being passed over for jobs they’re qualified for, or whether they’ve had to accept worse jobs than they otherwise would have.

Things that apply to all age brackets of the unemployed?

Someone can technically be employed while still experiencing age-related disadvantages in hiring, promotions, layoffs, compensation, career progression, etc. And someone who gets discouraged and leaves the labor force doesn’t necessarily show up as “unemployed” in the way you’re implying.

Are any of those relevant to my rebuttal of your claim? Do they not apply to any other age bracket?

Third, saying “it doesn’t mean it affects you personally” is kind of beside the point unless the original argument was specifically claiming that every person in that age group is personally experiencing discrimination. Obviously an aggregate pattern doesn’t mean every individual experiences it. The existence of racial discrimination, sex discrimination, disability discrimination, or any other form of discrimination doesn’t mean every person in the relevant group has personally encountered it either.

Your original statement was about you personally experiencing discrimination because of your age.

“I’m seeing evidence that age can be a disadvantage in certain employment situations,” responding with “but your age group has low unemployment” doesn’t really address the claim.

Another straw man argument. That's not the inverse of my rebuttal.

“older workers can face age-related barriers in the labor market.”

That was not your original statement.

“There are a couple examples, therefore everyone is discriminating against older workers.” That would obviously be an overreach. I’m saying that the existence and significance of age bias can’t really be dismissed just because the overall unemployment rate for an age bracket happens to be low.

No you claimed that you were experiencing unemployment and that it was due to ageism.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

Well, this has taken an unexpectedly scenic route through the weeds, but alright, let’s put the kettle on and have another go.

The central issue seems to be that you’re treating my original claim as if I had presented a completed statistical proof of individual causation, when what I actually said was that I was experiencing difficulty finding work and believed age was a contributing factor. Those are two rather different beasts, unless we’ve decided that every statement about one’s own experience must first be peer reviewed by the Royal Statistical Society before being permitted out of the house.

You’re right about one thing: the evidence I gave doesn’t establish that ageism is the sole cause of my unemployment. I never said it did. What it establishes, at least from my perspective, is that I have encountered circumstances where age appeared to be relevant. You can dispute that interpretation, obviously. What you can’t really do is turn “I think age is a factor in my experience” into “I have claimed to have mathematically demonstrated that ageism is responsible for 100% of my unemployment.”

That’s where Karl Popper becomes rather inconvenient for both of us. A hypothesis needs to be falsifiable, not magically transformed into a certainty by either side. If my claim is “age may be contributing to my difficulty finding employment,” then the appropriate response is to identify evidence that makes that explanation less plausible, not simply point at the aggregate unemployment rate and declare the case closed like a detective who has found a fingerprint on the wrong corpse.

And this is where your argument about unemployment rates gets a little slippery. A low unemployment rate for an age bracket does not establish that I personally am not experiencing age discrimination. It establishes that the aggregate unemployment rate for that group is low. Those are different propositions. One is population-level data, the other is an individual claim. You’re using the former to dismiss the latter, which is a bit like using the average temperature of the Atlantic Ocean to determine whether one particular person is currently wet.

Now, could my perception be wrong? Absolutely. I could be mistaken about the role age is playing. There could be other explanations. That's perfectly reasonable. But “you haven't proven ageism caused your unemployment” and “ageism isn't affecting you” are not the same statement. The first is a demand for stronger evidence. The second is a conclusion you haven't established either.

And yes, the factors I mentioned apply to unemployed people in other age brackets too. That's rather the point. They’re examples of why the headline unemployment figure is not a complete description of somebody's experience in the labour market. You asked whether they were relevant to your rebuttal, and strictly speaking, no, not all of them are. I brought them up because your rebuttal relied heavily on a single aggregate statistic as though it answered a question it doesn't actually measure. In hindsight, that was probably rather like bringing a sundial to a submarine and complaining that nobody had asked what time it was.

As for the “it doesn't mean it affects you personally” point, you're correct that my original statement was personal. But that doesn't make the issue disappear. If I say, “I think X happened to me because of Y,” you can reasonably ask what evidence I have for Y. What you can't reasonably infer is that because Y doesn't happen to everyone in my demographic, it therefore didn't happen to me. That's not an argument, it's just changing the subject while wearing the argument's hat.

And since we're apparently collecting philosophers now, Bertrand Russell would probably have something unkind to say about that distinction between what follows from the premises and what we'd quite like to follow from them. The fact that something is statistically uncommon doesn't logically entail that it didn't happen in a particular case. If one person is struck by lightning, the fact that most people aren't struck by lightning is not a particularly compelling rebuttal when they're standing there smoking slightly.

I also think you're giving “straw man” a rather enthusiastic workout. I wasn't saying your rebuttal was “older workers have high unemployment, therefore you're wrong.” I was saying that the unemployment statistic doesn't by itself answer the question of whether age played a role in my particular experience. If that's not what you intended the statistic to establish, then fair enough, but in that case I'm not entirely sure what work you think it is doing in the argument.

Ultimately, I think we're arguing past each other. You're asking me to demonstrate that ageism caused my unemployment to a standard sufficient to establish the proposition objectively. I'm saying that I have observed things in my own experience that lead me to believe age is a factor. Those are not mutually exclusive positions. I can acknowledge that my evidence is anecdotal and still regard it as evidence. Popper would probably object to me treating it as proof, and Russell would probably object to the entire conversation on grounds of insufficient logic and inadequate tea.

So, yes, if my original wording was “I am unemployed because employers are discriminating against me because of my age,” then I'll happily concede that that's a stronger causal claim than the evidence I presented can establish. If what I said was “I’m experiencing difficulty finding employment and I believe age is one of the factors contributing to that,” then your unemployment-rate statistic doesn't refute it.

It merely tells us that my experience isn't the median experience of my age bracket.

Which, rather unfortunately for the argument, was never the claim.

[-] MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

stop engging. he's not interested in it. he is just arguing to get a rise. we have dropped enough evidence here for other people to see the truth if they care to look.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

If I'd stopped there we wouldn't have gotten to this delicious ending:

Ah yes, Prove something doesnt exist. I’ll do that right after I prove God doesn’t exist…that’s not how science works my guy.

I can not prove God does not exist, therefore I can not prove ageism does not exist. QED, motherfucker!

[-] MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Well done. Let's see if it shuts him up.

[-] MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

yeah... you are not seriously engging in search of truth. you are trolling. you will continue to find fault with every study, statistic or fact finding while holding fast to your own conclusions with a vice grip.

I'll leave these here in case you decide to read them. i won't wait. bye!

https://generations.asaging.org/older-workers-50-year-high-unemployment-gap/

https://crr.bc.edu/unemployed-and-over-50-need-help/

yeah... you are not seriously engging in search of truth. you are trolling.

Just because I don't agree with you means I am trolling?

you will continue to find fault with every study, statistic or fact finding

The statistics you have posted to support your argument were very easy to criticize. Are my rebuttals incorrect, am I trying to be dishonest, or do you just not agree with me?

https://generations.asaging.org/older-workers-50-year-high-unemployment-gap/

Again, this is a study conducted by a lobbying group for older people. Besides that this is an extremely short term study that's evaluating a 6 month period after a pandemic, and there has since been a recovery to the unemployment of older workers. They were dismissed more often because they were the largest earners and the companies were scrambling to cut cost.

https://crr.bc.edu/unemployed-and-over-50-need-help/

Again.... A lobbying group for retirement aged workers. One that at least leaves the question open and doesn't make an absolute claim that ageism is the reason. "Some of the explanation for the difference is that older people are less malleable – they are fully formed human beings with a specific skill set – and more difficult to fit into existing slots. Another part of the explanation may be age discrimination. Employers worry whether older people can learn new skills and they are not sure how long they will stay. Age discrimination laws may also work against older job seekers; it is illegal to lay off on the basis of age, so employers may just avoid hiring older workers in the first place."

[-] MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Someone else already got to it before me to show that ageism is really a thing. However, I still want to comment.

The dirty little secret about unemployment statistics in the United States of America is that it only counts people who are considered searching for work.

Searching for work means they're receiving unemployment benefits. My benefits ran out six to eight months ago. I am not considered unemployed.

Consistently, month after month, the percentage of the population that is in the workforce is decreasing. I believe that statistic is called the workforce participation rate. This is why the unemployment rate is so low. Everybody who can't find a job and finally gives up drops off the list.

I saw a figure that I can't get the source for at the moment that states we have about a 14% rate of people who are unemployed who want to work.

Searching for work means they're receiving unemployment benefits. My benefits ran out six to eight months ago. I am not considered unemployed.

The department of labour defines it as anyone receiving benefits or still seeking employment. Seeking employment is defined as making specific efforts to find a job in the last 4 weeks. So no, that is not correct.

the percentage of the population that is in the workforce is decreasing. I believe that statistic is called the workforce participation rate.

The labour participation rate keeps track of the percentage of the civilian non-institutional population (ages 16 and older) that is either working or actively looking for a job

It has been in decline since the year 2000 largely due to the baby boomers reaching retirement age.

[-] stringere@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

Searching for work means they're receiving unemployment benefits. My benefits ran out six to eight months ago. I am not considered unemployed.

The department of labour defines it as anyone receiving benefits or still seeking employment. Seeking employment is defined as making specific efforts to find a job in the last 4 weeks. So no, that is not correct.

And how does the department of labor measure the number of people still seeking employment. What data are they gathering to measure that. Where are they getting it?

https://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm#unemployed

People are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work. Actively looking for work may consist of any of the following activities:

  • Contacting:
  • An employer directly or having a job interview
  • A public or private employment agency
  • Friends or relatives
  • A school or university employment center
  • Submitting resumes or filling out applications
  • Placing or answering job advertisements
  • Checking union or professional registers
  • Some other means of active job search

Passive methods of job search do not have the potential to connect job seekers with potential employers and therefore do not qualify as active job search methods. Examples of passive methods include attending a job training program or course, or merely reading about job openings that are posted in newspapers or on the Internet.

Who is not in the labor force?

As mentioned previously, the labor force is made up of the employed and the unemployed. The remainder—those who have no job and are not looking for one—are counted as not in the labor force.

A series of questions is asked each month of persons not in the labor force to obtain information about their desire for work, the reasons why they had not looked for work in the last 4 weeks, their prior job search, and their availability for work

I have never seen such a questionnaire when I was unemplyed past being able to collect benefits. 4 weeks after my unemployment ran out I become considered "not in the labor force". There is no followup program to identify people who are no longer considered in the labor force, yet are still seeking work.

[-] HubertManne@piefed.social 3 points 1 week ago

younger genx is just getting to where they can get social security. don't see how that is hanging on to the jobs. In another decade we might see.

Which is why I said older gen-x? Though generational classes are pretty vague.

[-] HubertManne@piefed.social 3 points 1 week ago

I read younger but figured you meant the one close to boomer. what im saying is they are just hitting retirement age. Im mid X and Im supposed to be working for 10 more years. heck now is supposed to be when Im putting in most for retirement. I would totally retire early now if I could. Thats why I was saying you might see in 10 years but honestly im not sure how older X is doing. I mean I know I was unemployed for over a year in 2010/2011 and was kinda lucky I had a job that held out for so long from that crises. similarly I was lucky to enter a government grant based position back with the first tech crash just after 2000. I mean I know boomers who could of retired with a nice enough setup and did not but given X is just at retirement age and that im not sure how prevalent a decent setup is its kinda a different story. I don't many have pension plans they are part of.

[-] MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

The oldest Gen X cohort is 60 years old now. we're not holding on to anything past retirement age... yet.

Note that there are many boomers who are poor and are working because they have no choice. Contrary to popular belief, most jobs were not that cushy over the last 50 to 60 years. pensions were steadily whacked, jobs were sent offshore. Maybe consider listening to the Billy Joel song called "Allentown".

Gen X is cynical and never believed they were going to get retirement anyway precisely because they watched what happened to the generation before them.

I included genx because some consider starting in 1960 or 1961, which would make them eligible for retirement.

Note that there are many boomers who are poor and are working because they have no choice. Contrary to popular belief, most jobs were not that cushy over the last 50 to 60 years. pensions were steadily whacked, jobs were sent offshore. Maybe consider listening to the Billy Joel song called "Allentown".

Yes, but compared to other generations they are doing much better.

Gen X is cynical and never believed they were going to get retirement anyway precisely because they watched what happened to the generation before them.

Lol, what? They watched their parents sell a home they bought for 10k for 400k and they lost all hope?

[-] MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

that straw man you set on fire is nice and warm.

Only a moron or a dishonest debater would look back and not acknowledge the destruction of millions of steel, coal, manufacturing, furniture making, and textile industry jobs, the decline of unions, the shifting of tax burdens, or the elimination of public support. oh, lets not forget the drug addiction all over manufacturing towns throughout the industrialized states.

bravo!

Only a moron or a dishonest debater would look back and not acknowledge the destruction of millions of steel, coal, manufacturing, furniture making, and textile industry jobs, the decline of unions, the shifting of tax burdens, or the elimination of public support.

Which they at least got to take part in before they voted for the people who destroyed it. They also benefited from the largest growth in wealth in American history. "Baby boomers hold approximately 51.6% of total U.S. household wealth, controlling over $85 trillion. Despite making up roughly 20% of the population, they possess an outsize share of assets compared to younger generations"

[-] Rooster326@programming.dev 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It's weird because I'm a much better worker and person than I was in my 20s.

Yes but you are also much more expensive than you were in your 20s. Even if you took the lower wages, the cost for insurance for the company is higher.

There's also the stigma/stereotype(?) of older individuals being stubborn, outspoken, and (often( refusing to learn new processes. "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" .

I unfortunately can say I had these views when I was younger but we will all get to the other side of that coin.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago

That's true. Making insurance go through employers does obviously contribute to age discrimination.

And, as far as stereotypes go, yes, that is almost universally the cause of discrimination.

But, in this case, as other people have pointed out, a big part of it could just be social exclusion--that is younger people want to work with younger people. I think some countries and cultures do this better than others, but in the United States there is a very strong generational segregation.

[-] Rooster326@programming.dev 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

There is a strong segregation. I'd argue it isn't just generational though. And it's not new

Look at literally the hiring habits of every Indian manager, or eastern European?

Literally all it took was 1 Indian to be promoted to director of my department,and we have not had a single promotion, or out of cycle raise for anyone that was not a man with strong Indian roots. Not once in almost a decade. If you want up, you must move sideways - which I thankfully did.

My friends employer hired a VIP that was from Belarus, and within 6 months. My buddy found he was the only American still in his entire department.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

Yup, that is more explicit discrimination. And before you retire, consider suing that place. Right wing outlets will eat it up.

There is a separate softer and amorphous "team culture" bias that is particularly difficult if you're substantially older (or younger) than everyone else.

I once was on a job interview and was asked, "It's important that everyone gets along, so what are your hobbies?" Obviously, if people get along and what their hobbies SHOULD ideally be two different questions, but if everyone is talking about Pokemon and you're just wondering who is going to win the International Chopin Competition, you're probably not going to gel.

[-] HubertManne@piefed.social 2 points 1 week ago

This worries me a bit because I have never been diagnosed but I am that person that has always been "odd". Tech was great in not caring about that stuff.

[-] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Yup, the few places I really got along with people seemed to be at jobs autistic people gravitated to.

Job interviews are an absolutely brutal filter. Not only are you expected to lie shamelessly, your first job is to placate the interviewer and make them comfortable with you. NT's do the first one more easily and the second instinctively.

If you look at un- and underemployment rates for people who aren't even ON the spectrum (Broad Autism Phenotype), it's pretty stark.

this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2026
73 points (95.1% liked)

Work Reform

17432 readers
290 users here now

A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.

Our Philosophies:

Our Goals

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS