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[-] Hotznplotzn@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

... Europe was already well on their way forward

Europe and other democracies have clearly the better solutions, that's what I say, too.

Frank Dikötter, a Dutch historian historian and China expert, wrote a great book published in 2010, "Mao's Great Famine; The Story of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe".

The Independent published an interview with Mr. Dikötter to speak about this book.

[The book] reveals that while this is a part of history that has been "quite forgotten" in the official memory of the People's Republic of China, there was a "staggering degree of violence" that was, remarkably, carefully catalogued in Public Security Bureau reports, which featured among the provincial archives he [Dikötter] studied ...

Frank Dikötter is the only author to have delved into the Chinese archives since they were reopened four years ago. He argued that this devastating period of history – which has until now remained hidden – has international resonance.

"[Mao's Great Famine] ranks alongside the gulags and the Holocaust as one of the three greatest events of the 20th century.... It was like [the Cambodian communist dictator] Pol Pot's genocide multiplied 20 times over," he said.

The policy against citizens was abhorrent:

State retribution for tiny thefts, such as stealing a potato, even by a child, would include being tied up and thrown into a pond; parents were forced to bury their children alive or were doused in excrement and urine, others were set alight, or had a nose or ear cut off. One record shows how a man was branded with hot metal. People were forced to work naked in the middle of winter; 80 per cent of all the villagers in one region of a quarter of a million Chinese were banned from the official canteen because they were too old or ill to be effective workers, so were deliberately starved to death.

Dikötter said the archives were already illuminating the extent of the atrocities of the period; one piece of evidence revealed that 13,000 opponents of the new regime were killed in one region alone, in just three weeks.

And this is just one book. There are many more. That all clearly say that Mao was the biggest killer in history, Under Mao’s regime, more people have died than under any other dictators, including Hitler and Stalin.

Edit: It is important to note that the sources for this book come from the Chinese archives that were reopened in the 2000s. These are documents written and published by the Chinese Communist Party.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

Hey, there you go again with your holocaust trivialization via Double Genocide Theory! You even directly mentioned gulags, which saw the overwhelming majority of their deaths during World War II, due to starvation from the Nazi invasion. You're really committed to trivializing the Holocaust and demonizing communism, to the point that you copy and paste the same mantra over and over again as though it's a magic spell.

You also seem to imply that European colonialism was the "greater answer," considering you didn't at all contest that European wealth was built off of the global south and that this is the reason for their heightened life expectancy before China managed to do so. I understand that this is what your ideology inevitably leads to, but it's interesting to admit it so nakedly, intentionally or not.

As for Frank Dikötter, he is far from reliable. He essentially multiplied a baseline number of 30-32.5 million by 1.5 to get 45 million deaths, overgeneralized from anecdotes, pinned all of the famine on Mao in particular as though Mao was supernaturally influential over the weather and how every person in China acted, and collaborates with Radio Free Asia, a fascist US-regime backed news outlet designed to propagandize against China. It's also worth noting that "opposition to the regime" is all that is listed, when we know of massacres committed by the opposition, such as the White Terror. Dikötter relies on selectively presenting evidence in order to paint a picture that appears full, but in reality is full of holes (a characteristic you share with him).

[-] Hotznplotzn@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 13 hours ago

State retribution for tiny thefts, such as stealing a potato, even by a child, would include being tied up and thrown into a pond; parents were forced to bury their children alive or were doused in excrement and urine, others were set alight, or had a nose or ear cut off. One record shows how a man was branded with hot metal. People were forced to work naked in the middle of winter; 80 per cent of all the villagers in one region of a quarter of a million Chinese were banned from the official canteen because they were too old or ill to be effective workers, so were deliberately starved to death.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 13 hours ago

You're really fragile, aren't you? Why are you incapable of responding to the points I made? The source you provided is horrendous, and you keep repeating points tied to Holocaust trivialization.

[-] chloroken@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 hours ago

Europe and other democracies have clearly the better solutions, that's what I say, too.

You were told that China's life expectancy gains were not the result of global advancements. This assertation was supported by pointing out that other regions were making their own gains prior to the Chinese revolution.

To then go and make the logical conclusion that the systems outside of China were better, not that China finally got its change to enact better systems, dictates to us that you are an anticommunist more interested in agitating and spreading false propaganda than you are telling truths.

And to that end, go fuck yourself, loser.

this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2026
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