Wow, I'm sure this thread won't be full of .mls sucking Mao's mass murdering chode, no sir, not here
/s
Many historians agree that Mao Zedong is the worst mass murderer in history. This person caused the deaths of 70 million people in peacetime, making him a far worse killer than Hitler or Stalin. But in China he is a hero, at least according to the official narrative.
For starters, the 70 million figure comes from the Black Book of Communism, a famously debunked work of propaganda that included Nazis killed in wartime as "victims of communism," and whose contributors were caught making up numbers in order to get to 100 million. Of the actual peacetime deaths under Mao, the majority occurred during famine which primarily originated from weather disaster, and was made worse through mismanagement. Even with these deaths, life expectancy from birth doubled under Mao:
Not only that, but Mao was instrumental in leading the Red Army to victory against Japanese imperialism, against the nationalist Kuomintang, and constructing the basis of socialism in China. Foot binding was banned by Mao. Industrialization dramatically increased under Mao. Land reform totally eliminated the feudal landlord class. Without Mao's contributions to solidifying socialism, there would be no successful modern China today.
With that context, it's easy to understand why China would take offense to a foreigner making light of one of their heroes.
Apart from the fact that life expectancy rose everywhere sharply since the 1850s, it has nothing to do with the fact that Mao was the biggest killer in history. This come from a lot of books and other sources. It's a dark part of human history.
Perhaps you didn't see the graph, but life expectancy in China shot up sharply precisely in 1949, the founding of the People's Republic of China. This is because the new system ended the semi-feudal relations, the era of imperialism and the century of humiliation. It marked the beginning of scientific planning and progress for all. Calling Mao "the biggest killer in history" and comparing him to Hitler is to say that the deaths under Mao were deliberate, but this is extraordinarily dishonest. Hitler created mass extermination camps for disabled people, Jews, Slavic peoples, and queer folk. The deaths due to mismanagement of famine have an entirely different context, and when compared by ratio of the entire population this argument falls apart instantly.
This is on top of the fact that you stand by fabricated numbers as a source of truth. Who are you to use literal paid propaganda in order to tell the people of China how to view their own history?
Perhaps you didn't see other graphs, but life expectancy in Europe started to shot up sharply, and it did so precisely in the 1950s, the founding of the European integration movement. This is because it marked the beginning of progress for all ...
I am sure you find similar graphs for Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and a lot of other countries. This is because it marked the begging of progress for all in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, and a lot of other countries.
This shows clearly that democracy is the best form of government.
This has nothing to do, however, that Mao was the biggest killer in history, as many historians agree. Under Mao's regime, more people have died than under any other dictators, including Hitler and Stalin.
If you zoom out from 1950, you'll see that Europe was already well on their way forward:
The reason China was left behind was because it was imperialized, and the imperialist European countries already had a few centuries of colonialism under their belts to help prop up their economies and fuel advancement. China only began to stand up, so to speak, once it broke the chains of colonialism and instituted grand land reform, requiring no colonialism on its own part to uplift its people.
I agree that democracy is the best form of government, but I'm confused by you linking a bunch of dictatorships of capital. You link settler-colonial countries founded on genocide of indigenous peoples, such as Canada, New Zealand, and Australia, as well as countries like Japan that were either active empires, or receiving massive amounts of investment from imperialist countries in order to profit off of them as vassals.
Democracy means rule by the people, which means the people must control the economy and the state. This is only possible when the commanding heights of the economy are socially owned, as they are in China, Cuba, etc. If a country is dominated by private ownership, then this class is the only one that democracy actually functions for.
You again repeat your zinger equating a socialist leader that doubled life expectancy from birth to a mass murdering genocidal capitalist, but it gets us no closer to understanding why Chinese people love Mao. Historians outside of your western frame of view would disagree vehemontly with your equation of fascism with communism, as it is a core component of Double Genocide Theory, a form of Holocaust trivialization.
You also haven't acknowledged your use of fabricated numbers, deliberately erase context that disproves your own point by only showing data from 1950 onward, etc. What's the point when your dishonesty is so naked?
... Europe was already well on their way forward
Europe and other democracies have clearly the better solutions, that's what I say, too.
Frank Dikötter, a Dutch historian historian and China expert, wrote a great book published in 2010, "Mao's Great Famine; The Story of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe".
The Independent published an interview with Mr. Dikötter to speak about this book.
[The book] reveals that while this is a part of history that has been "quite forgotten" in the official memory of the People's Republic of China, there was a "staggering degree of violence" that was, remarkably, carefully catalogued in Public Security Bureau reports, which featured among the provincial archives he [Dikötter] studied ...
Frank Dikötter is the only author to have delved into the Chinese archives since they were reopened four years ago. He argued that this devastating period of history – which has until now remained hidden – has international resonance.
"[Mao's Great Famine] ranks alongside the gulags and the Holocaust as one of the three greatest events of the 20th century.... It was like [the Cambodian communist dictator] Pol Pot's genocide multiplied 20 times over," he said.
The policy against citizens was abhorrent:
State retribution for tiny thefts, such as stealing a potato, even by a child, would include being tied up and thrown into a pond; parents were forced to bury their children alive or were doused in excrement and urine, others were set alight, or had a nose or ear cut off. One record shows how a man was branded with hot metal. People were forced to work naked in the middle of winter; 80 per cent of all the villagers in one region of a quarter of a million Chinese were banned from the official canteen because they were too old or ill to be effective workers, so were deliberately starved to death.
Dikötter said the archives were already illuminating the extent of the atrocities of the period; one piece of evidence revealed that 13,000 opponents of the new regime were killed in one region alone, in just three weeks.
And this is just one book. There are many more. That all clearly say that Mao was the biggest killer in history, Under Mao’s regime, more people have died than under any other dictators, including Hitler and Stalin.
Edit: It is important to note that the sources for this book come from the Chinese archives that were reopened in the 2000s. These are documents written and published by the Chinese Communist Party.
Europe and other democracies have clearly the better solutions, that's what I say, too.
You were told that China's life expectancy gains were not the result of global advancements. This assertation was supported by pointing out that other regions were making their own gains prior to the Chinese revolution.
To then go and make the logical conclusion that the systems outside of China were better, not that China finally got its change to enact better systems, dictates to us that you are an anticommunist more interested in agitating and spreading false propaganda than you are telling truths.
And to that end, go fuck yourself, loser.
Hey, there you go again with your holocaust trivialization via Double Genocide Theory! You even directly mentioned gulags, which saw the overwhelming majority of their deaths during World War II, due to starvation from the Nazi invasion. You're really committed to trivializing the Holocaust and demonizing communism, to the point that you copy and paste the same mantra over and over again as though it's a magic spell.
You also seem to imply that European colonialism was the "greater answer," considering you didn't at all contest that European wealth was built off of the global south and that this is the reason for their heightened life expectancy before China managed to do so. I understand that this is what your ideology inevitably leads to, but it's interesting to admit it so nakedly, intentionally or not.
As for Frank Dikötter, he is far from reliable. He essentially multiplied a baseline number of 30-32.5 million by 1.5 to get 45 million deaths, overgeneralized from anecdotes, pinned all of the famine on Mao in particular as though Mao was supernaturally influential over the weather and how every person in China acted, and collaborates with Radio Free Asia, a fascist US-regime backed news outlet designed to propagandize against China. It's also worth noting that "opposition to the regime" is all that is listed, when we know of massacres committed by the opposition, such as the White Terror. Dikötter relies on selectively presenting evidence in order to paint a picture that appears full, but in reality is full of holes (a characteristic you share with him).
State retribution for tiny thefts, such as stealing a potato, even by a child, would include being tied up and thrown into a pond; parents were forced to bury their children alive or were doused in excrement and urine, others were set alight, or had a nose or ear cut off. One record shows how a man was branded with hot metal. People were forced to work naked in the middle of winter; 80 per cent of all the villagers in one region of a quarter of a million Chinese were banned from the official canteen because they were too old or ill to be effective workers, so were deliberately starved to death.
You're really fragile, aren't you? Why are you incapable of responding to the points I made? The source you provided is horrendous, and you keep repeating points tied to Holocaust trivialization.
oh its 70 million now
a week ago it was 50 million
Crazy how Mao is killing millions in few days decades after his death.
“There’s a part of it that’s funny. You can tell that, for some people, it’s all in good fun. But there is another part that’s a bit less funny because of the damage such people have caused throughout history,” he said.
“Being compared to individuals who murder others, or who have brought misery to millions upon millions of people – well, I don’t think I’ve ever done anything like that in my life,” he said.
I guess they’re mad he’s pointing out Mao was responsible for a lot of dead people
No, we are mad that he is painting mao as an evil murderous dictator without any nuance, when mao infact was responsible for alot of good stuff in this world, and mainly for china.
Basic history stuff.
The rarest .world W
Hunh. That's very odd. 😂 Whiny, greedy bastards. (the gov't)
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