this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2024
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Ministry of Justice workers call researcher a 'bitch' in online conversation (www.rnz.co.nz)
submitted 4 months ago by Dave to c/newzealand
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Two Ministry of Justice workers are in hot water for describing a researcher as a "bitch" in an online conversation.

Academic and author Barbara Sumner made a number of Official Information Act requests as part of her PhD research into the systems around adoption. Then, in October last year, she asked for all correspondence mentioning her by name.

"Because I had felt all along that there was a resistance to everything I sent in and you know, just the sort of snottiness, I guess, of some of the responses that came in that request. I wanted to understand how they were treating me throughout the process."

One page of the response stood out among more than 100 others. A November 2022 Teams conversation between two staffers, whose names were redacted, complained about Sumner's latest request.

They described it as "a waste of time" and said it "should have been refused on the ground of substantial collation" or that the ministry should "charge her for it and get a contractor".

"our ministerial services team sucks cuz they wouldnt let us refuse, and helen didnt push back hard [sic]," one worker wrote.

"but also shes a bitch for wanting everything. does she think govt just has unlimited resources for this type of crap lol.

"like theres no public interest in our emails back and forward."

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[–] Ilovethebomb 14 points 4 months ago (4 children)

She sounds like a massive pain in the ass, and the story is written to be sympathetic to her. I don't blame the employees for getting annoyed, but putting something like this in writing is just dumb.

What's so important about a PhD that justifies this level of access, anyway? How does it benefit NZ?

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Found one of the employees

[–] Ilovethebomb 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Not a single comment you've made has added anything of value to the conversation, do you realise that?

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Better than the negative value from you.

[–] Ilovethebomb 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I really think you should take your combative attitude back to Reddit.

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Speak for yourself, champ.

[–] Ilovethebomb 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Seriously though, what is your issue? Why are you like this?

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Calling out bullshit is a hobby and a service I provide free of charge.

Why do you get your panties in a twist at Internet randos?

[–] Ilovethebomb 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

What bullish are you calling out exactly?

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Currently, your hypocritical blathering.

[–] Ilovethebomb 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Can you be more specific?

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)
[–] Ilovethebomb 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

So, what do you feel you've added to the conversation?

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Calling out bullshit is a hobby and a service I provide free of charge.

What have you added?

[–] Ilovethebomb 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I realise you're not from around here, so let me fill you in. lemmy.nz is a fairly small instance, where we all interact with each other on a regular basis, and typically are civil to each other, even when we disagree.

Try and keep this in mind in future.

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago

Feel free to be less combative.

[–] stellargmite@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago (1 children)

How do you know what is or isn't of benefit to NZ unless it is disclosed? If that takes effort, then thats one of the many costs of having a (always tenuous) democracy.

[–] Ilovethebomb 1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

That's why I'm asking.

My question is, is a PhD thesis as important as this person thinks it is?

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yes.

[–] Ilovethebomb 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Why?

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world -2 points 4 months ago

Just to annoy you, specifically.

[–] liv 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I looked it up, it's this research here so depending on how it's written up I can definitely see it potentially benefiting a subset of society.

That said, the bar for PhD research is it has to make an original contribution of new material to its field - that's for the universities to gatekeep. PhDs only have to be "of benefit to NZ" above and beyond that if they are getting direct funding from the Government (or other funding body with that requirement).

But either way a PhD is literally a piece of research so anyone undertaking one has to, well, research all the relevant info to the very best of their ability.

I think the issue here is whether their staff are funded to the level to meet these OIAs and if not, their manager should have requested her to apply for funding to cover it. Which is hard to know without knowing what the level of access actually was.

There's a wikipedia article on her and she seems to mainly be a film maker/journalist not an academic, and is now involved in adoption activism around people who weren't allowed to know who their real parents are. So the request about her name kind of makes more sense to me in that context.

[–] Ilovethebomb 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Hmm. The PhD study does sound like it's more to benefit her career as an author and her activism than NZ as a whole, but I can see why, in theory at least, a PhD is worthwhile for public interest.

[–] liv 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I don't really understand why you seem to think either of these:

  • someone getting a university degree should have to primarily benefit NZ as a whole

  • OIA requests should have to benefit NZ as a whole

It sounds authoritarian and communist to me as well, and I'd guessed you were maybe centre-right or at least a proponent of status quo neoliberal economics, and pro freedom of education and information! 😀

[–] Ilovethebomb 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm not sure what gave you that idea.

The argument being made seems to be that her research is of great value to NZ, and should be made more of a priority than it has been, and I'm not convinced that is the case.

[–] liv 1 points 4 months ago

Oh okay, didn't pick up on that being the argument. Fair enough.

[–] Venator 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

The fact she put in an OIA request for all correspondence mentioning her by name kinda shows that she's probably doing a lot of unnecessary requests, but it also shows that her suspicions were kinda correct.

Maybe she had to put in a lot of extra requests due to people filling the requests not supplying all the relevant info the first time, or denying her requests more frequently once people started to recognise her name... 🤔

That said, reaction of info can be extremely tedious(speaking from what I've heard from friends who have to redact videos of software testing), and will drive almost anyone a bit up the wall... 😅