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[-] wheezy@lemmy.ml 76 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Ugh, clovers. Giving me trauma to living in San Jose and the clover that merges 101 and 880.

The two most congested and largest freeways. Let's have all the traffic entering have to fight with all the traffic exiting in about 100 ft of road.

You'd literally have people blocking the far left lanes and essentially making "right turns" across the all lanes. I hated them at first. But, honestly, you learn quickly that it's just all lanes of traffic fighting and that's just one method of getting through. It's not even faster because all lanes are just blocked at that point.

Fuck cars. But clover interchanges are a special kind of stupid.

Worst part. I took the Cal train to SF to avoid traffic. But this was a road block between my house and the train station. It was anywhere from 30-60 minutes of driving in rush hour. It was a 5 minute drive when there was no traffic at night.

Just absolute insanity.

[-] vladmech@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago

Hah yeah we do this going from 101 to 880 north pretty often and it’s wild how much time it can shave. That entire interchange is the worst designed I’ve seen.

[-] cerement@slrpnk.net 9 points 1 month ago

Texas had to go one better – inverted cloverleafs (stack interchanges) complete with service (frontage) roads

[-] wheezy@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Dude, I have driven through Texas. I forgot about those. It's like someone created a merge and thought "who should yield? Eh, we'll never have enough cars for that to matter."

[-] LodeMike@lemmy.today 7 points 1 month ago

Clovers work well if there's like 3 cars using it at any given point in time.

City I used to fly into for work eventually rebuilt an intire intersection (pretty major one for the area) to remove it. Had to be a real bitch to do. It was a huge upgrade.

Wasn't a giant concrete monstrosity, which I'd imagine would be worse.

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 month ago

Yeah, why are clovers so wide-spread over there? We have almost none here.

[-] Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Because we built the highways in one shot in the 50s and have just now started questioning if there are better designs

[-] jaykrown@lemmy.world 53 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Everyone commuting at the same time is borked. Drive around a 3 AM, there's no traffic. It'd be better if we pushed for shifts that don't NEED to be 9 AM to 5 PM out towards a different time like 6 AM to 2 PM.

What's "borked" is that we all conform to a weird strict standard of all leaving/returning at the same hour.

[-] kamee@lemmy.zip 11 points 1 month ago

I don’t, my day us shifted, so I commute later, instead of like an hour and a half my commute is 50 minutes (which is still a lot for a European) but in exchange I live in my hometown

[-] jaykrown@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

Yea that's exactly what I'm talking about, you're saving like an hour a day simply by commuting at a slightly different time, AND you're not contributing to peak traffic hours.

[-] lazynooblet@lazysoci.al 11 points 1 month ago

to be 9 AM to 5 AM

I know this is a typo but I found it hilarious to think you were recommending 20 hour shifts as an improvement.

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[-] mirshafie@europe.pub 4 points 1 month ago

One word answer: families.

[-] BlaestEgnen@feddit.dk 5 points 1 month ago

Families is actually usually the reason for people to push for this, as having one parent for sending the child off and one for picking them up is often necessary if both parents wants to work full time

So one goes like 6 to 14 and the other does their 8 to 16 shenanigans

[-] jaykrown@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Yea, schedule is still mostly to blame, just think about how empty the streets are for many hours a night, or very little traffic at 11 AM or 2 PM. This is why I'm doing everything I can to try to avoid getting stuck commuting at normal times. I'd rather have a job that starts at 6 AM and ends at 2 PM.

[-] mirshafie@europe.pub 9 points 1 month ago

Oh, you can drop your toddler off at daycare at 5 AM? Are your tweens fine readying themselves for school without any adults at home?

A car-centric society is the problem. The need to commute by car, both for the kids and the adults, is the problem.

[-] Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I worked 6a-6p (3.5 days a week) with a toddler as a single mom, and daycare options were super limited. There was a whole two places available, could only use licenced in-home daycare folks.

I loved the schedule though. I did feel like someone elsecwas raising my kid on work days though.

commuting was easy peasy too

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[-] IphtashuFitz@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

Years ago I worked with a guy who had a roughly 20 mile commute that was about 19 miles on a major highway that choked during rush hour. He worked from home in the early morning then drove in starting after 10:00. He’d then head home around 6:00 PM or later. He said traffic was almost always light.

He also never listened to traffic reports on TV or the radio. One day he got on the highway and was surprised to find traffic was virtually non-existent. He got about half way to the office to find the highway had been completely shut down due to a fuel tanker that was on fire…

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[-] Canconda@lemmy.ca 37 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Ah yes the classic, "pro gamer move."

To turn left onto my local stroadway it's often faster to go straight, make a u-turn and a right turn because the left turns are advance green only. The main green is 5x longer so inevitably a bunch of people are just stopped with no cars going through the intersection.

[-] Agent641@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

I used to go to work along a road that had a two-lane roundabout. One lane turns left and one lane turns right (in this country, we drive on the left for context)

The left lane was always banked up many many cars, but the right lane wasn't.

So I'd go bomb down in the right lane and do a 270 degree turn to end up going left, where the banked-up left-turning cars had to yield to me.

That's a pro gamer move.

[-] nullify3112@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Driving is such a zero sum game… yeah, who knew that cutting everybody off (legally) would make travel time shorter for you and longer for everybody else.

Not hating on you, hating on this whole concept of being trapped in a car to go to work turning off everyone’s sense of humanity and community.

[-] pyre@lemmy.world 34 points 1 month ago

see what you need is an extra lane there

[-] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 18 points 1 month ago

I swear bro just one more lane it'll fix all your traffic issues just one more bro please

[-] saimen@feddit.org 20 points 1 month ago

Isn't there this paradoxical thing that additional roads can lead to longer travel times for everyone? I think it has something to do with things like these. I guess there was a veritasium episode about it.

[-] SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago
[-] manuallybreathing@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 month ago

Its similar to this

1865

The Jevons paradox (pronounced /ˈdʒɛ.vənz/, JEV-ənz) or Jevons effect is an economic phenomenon said to occur when technological improvements that increase the efficiency of a resource's use lead to a rise, rather than a fall, in total consumption of that resource.[1][2][3][4] Greater efficiency reduces the amount of the resource needed per application, lowering its effective cost; if demand is sufficiently price elastic, this induces demand, frequently resulting in a net increase of total resource consumption

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

[-] saimen@feddit.org 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I found it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess%27s_paradox

It's more about everyone trying to use their best route which might might be inefficient for the whole system, as OPs example nicely shows.

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[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Three factors for this that I'm aware of:

  1. The whole road system needs to be able to handle the throughput from all sources to all destinations in aggregate. That means if you relieve one bottleneck, it increases the rate that traffic can reach the roads on the other side of the former bottleneck, which can cause them to exceed capacity. Eg, if you have a 5 lane highway reduce to 3 lanes and jams frequently form at (and leading up to) the lane reduction sites, traffic will likely flow ok in those 3 lanes and then really open up if it goes to 4. But if they extend the 5 lanes to where it goes to 4, there will now likely be a jam where traffic used to flow decently where it was 3 lanes, and that "really opens up" also gets downgraded to "flows decently".
  2. Intersections are horrible once the exceed capacity, especially if there's any potential for starvation in the way they cycle, as that can result in not just a jam but grid lock. Starvation in this context means a vehicle never gets their turn to proceed through the intersection in the way they desire. People waiting for their turn that will never come back up as more queue up and eventually start blocking the other paths through the intersection and other intersections leading there start also seeing starvation and eventually you need a person to go direct traffic to get things flowing again. Grid lock is when all paths get starved and will just continue backing up until everyone who wants to go to the gridlocked area is stuck in traffic that isn't moving at all. It's also why it's illegal to stop inside an intersection because then you start starving any lanes you block. Anyways, adding a new road or lanes can suddenly cause an intersection downroad to exceed capacity.
  3. More onramps/offramps on a highway increase turbulence as people need to change lanes, especially in those cases where the lane you enter on immediately exits, as you get both people wanting to join and leave that lane in a short area. Turbulence creates traffic waves as traffic alternates between slowing down as people are forced to brake for lane changers having trouble moving over, and the slowdown effectively increases the road capacity (ahead of it, behind it has effective reduced capacity), so those at the front can immediately speed up, but since these affect different lanes at different rates, the lane weavers try to move to the fastest lanes and create more turbulence, sometimes it all adds up to bring some of the traffic to a complete stop. The same thing happens when people try to skip the queue and force their way into the backed up lane at the last moment.

Asshole drivers make bad traffic situations way worse than they need to be. But road systems are a lot more complex than they seem to be. It's like fluid dynamics but even more complex because each driver has a different will (and agression, competence, etc) and it's several ton vehicles that break if they touch each other acting as the basic particles instead of particles that usually move past each other relatively easily.

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[-] fizzle@quokk.au 16 points 1 month ago

It annoys me that there is no fourth ring in the north east corner.

I understand why. You do not need to explain it to me. It's still annoying.

[-] Gloomy@mander.xyz 17 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Does this help? You better now?

[-] teslekova@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago

...yes mum thx mum

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[-] bryndos@fedia.io 15 points 1 month ago

Why'd they build those useless blobby green barriers everywhere in the top right? They should clearly have added another lane or two to the red route.

Some woke Joni Mitchell communist plot.

[-] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago

Roads??? Where we're going we don't need roads!!!

drives on all that empty green lawn

[-] DisasterTransport@startrek.website 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

One of the interchange ramps on my commute home regularly slows to stop and go due to lane changes. There is an on ramp followed by an off ramp a mile later. They share a lane. Cars entering the freeway, cars exiting the freeway, and cars on the freeway all fight for space. And I live in a relatively affluent area (or rather a very stratified area) so lots of people have newer model cars with automatic cruise control that quickly fills gaps and and then hard brakes when people enter the freeway. It's a shitshow.

Anyway, I've learned that by exiting the freeway a mile early, entering downtown, doing a full circle on a round about, and reentering the freeway allows me to skip that mile or so of hostile traffic. I log my mileage and I have found the longer route actually burns less fuel, even.

[-] kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago

The clover interchange is the most cursed interchange, and also the most common because it's relatively cheap.

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

It's common in areas where there's a lot of undeveloped land when it's built.

Otherwise it's the most expensive by far because it takes a fuckton of land.

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[-] Furbag@pawb.social 9 points 1 month ago

Give em the old three leaf clover skidoo ☘️

[-] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

One of my favorite traffic hacks. Google maps would never recommend it, but it is faster.

What'll really blow your mind is that all you're doing is navigating a really weird traffic circle. The more direct ramps are really just slip lanes (optimizations) for said circle.

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this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2026
521 points (98.5% liked)

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