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submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by WanderWisley@lemmy.world to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world

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[-] mechoman444@lemmy.world 46 points 1 day ago

I want to be clear about something before anyone interprets this as me defending Trump: I am not a Trump supporter. I consider him one of the worst presidents in U.S. history, and I have very little interest in defending either him or his political agenda.

That is precisely why I have a problem with memes like this being presented as factual arguments.

The USS Abraham Lincoln really did return to port after an extraordinarily long deployment. The photograph is real, and the ship genuinely looks rough after spending months at sea. But using that photograph as evidence that Trump somehow left the U.S. military looking like this is misleading. The Lincoln had just completed a 286 day deployment, including roughly 208 consecutive days at sea and about 200 days in a combat zone. That is actually a far more legitimate thing to criticize. Keeping a carrier and its crew deployed for that length of time raises serious questions about operational tempo, maintenance, readiness, crew fatigue, and the strain being placed on the Navy. Those are substantive criticisms that deserve discussion.

Instead, we get this stupid little meme that takes a completely legitimate photograph, strips away all of its context, and presents it as though it is evidence of something it does not actually demonstrate. That is intentionally misleading the people who see it, and then encouraging them to repeat the misinformation because it supports an agenda.

That's the problem I keep seeing on Lemmy: a legitimate political point gets wrapped in misinformation because the misinformation makes the meme more effective. People then repeat it because it supports a conclusion they already agree with.

I don't think that's acceptable simply because the target is Trump.

One of the things that infuriates me about Trump and his political movement is their willingness to manipulate facts, exploit outrage, selectively present information, and construct narratives that are technically based on something real while being fundamentally misleading. We shouldn't respond to that by adopting the same tactics.

If we believe our position is actually stronger, then we should be able to make the argument honestly.

You can criticize Trump's claims about "rebuilding the military." You can criticize defense spending, procurement failures, maintenance problems, military readiness, the defense industrial complex, or the extraordinary deployment demands being placed on the Navy. There are plenty of legitimate arguments to make.

We don't need to manufacture evidence to make those arguments.

If our standard becomes "misinformation is acceptable when it hurts the people we dislike," then we've abandoned the very standard we're supposedly defending. Worse, we've made ourselves vulnerable to exactly the same rhetorical tactics when they're used against us.

Being better than Trump and his political movement means more than disagreeing with them. It means refusing to become comfortable with the methods we condemn when they're politically convenient.

[-] notabot@piefed.social 16 points 1 day ago

Maybe I'm overthinking the meme, but to me that picture means exactly what you said about excessively long deployments and the issues of maintaining both materiel and personnel as an effective force when that happens. It sums up the whole bundle of problems in one image, even if the thing pictured isn't directly the issue. Sure, a more nuanced and detailed aanalysis is better, but this gets the message across to even people who don't have the mental bandwidth for that.

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[-] shartgargle@lemmy.zip 20 points 1 day ago

You make a valid point if this were misinformation. But where's the misinformation? That's a picture of the ship. Salt water and steel don't mix well, we all know this. Long deployments at sea means stretched maintenance schedules. And for what purpose? Nobody really knows. Israel has nukes, why can't Iran? This war is costing us immensely and for no other purpose than so Israel doesn't release Donnie's pedo proof. There's no misinformation in this meme. The ship looks like shit because it was there for a long ass time, but it does look like shit.

Where are you seeing misinformation in this?

[-] 100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it 5 points 1 day ago

Israel can have nukes because it's the only democracy of the Middle East /s

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[-] BlackVenom@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The ship is fine. The post is trying to claim otherwise.

The sailors, the pointless war, etc... are valid concerns.

The OmG ShIp Got WuStY... Is undermining the real problems.

[-] shartgargle@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 day ago

Right, I get that. But that's a reaction to the meme. It is factually rusty. It's not necessarily a problem yet, but it isn't misinformation. It's just kinda small fry shit. Even the claim from trump that he's rebuilt the military twice is simply eye-rolling in nature. It's like calling him orange, it's not important, but it's true. Therefore it can't really be called misinformation.

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[-] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

I don't disagree, but we're living in the age of memes and 30 second videos. People don't even bother to do the most basic of fact checking. They're too hung up on trying to "win" discussions, while being "accurate" or "truthful" takes a back seat.

[-] mechoman444@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Man. Ain't that the truth. If I had a nickel for every logical fallacy I've been accused of committing I'd... Have like twenty bucks. But that's a lot of nickels.

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[-] WraithGear@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

so, i can’t impress upon everyone the toll the ocean has on ships. the ocean seems to make it its mission to sink every vessel in it, one steel layer at a time. and paint only lasts so long.

when in a deployment, the scraping and repainting maintenance is not able to be done. and this is a standard result of a ship being out. other then paint discoloration, i don’t see anything wrong with it.

[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 day ago

If they wouldn't have been deployed way too long, it wouldn't look like that. You're making the argument for the meme.

[-] WraithGear@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

i mean i agree that they should not be out so long, but no ship comes back looking very good, maybe a touch up port side in hawaii.

mine didn’t look much different. the meme seems to point to exceptional military incompetence as to why it looks like that. but that’s just your average levels of neglect.

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

i was going to say it looks to be riding high so either supplies or crew are low (which given what we've heard about the lincoln, it's a good move to get as much of the nonessential crew off there as possible i'd think. i'd also think more of the airplanes too tho)

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Rid hard, put away wet.

[-] ZapBeebz_@lemmy.world 107 points 2 days ago

I mean, while she absolutely does not look great, this is also the expected condition for a ship that's been at sea for 200+ days without even a port call. Saltwater is hell on metal, and paint can only do so much for so long.

[-] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 87 points 2 days ago

The ship shouldn't have been out that long in the first place. Letting it get this bad is the failure being highlighted here.

[-] vzqq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 33 points 2 days ago

Maybe don’t start a war that puts your critical shore support structures at risk if you don’t have a plan.

Or just, you know, don’t start a war, period. I have been informed it’s generally frowned upon.

Trump voters are braindead. Now we have sailers jumping off the boat to their deaths. Whole country is a hopeless cesspool of income inequality, job insecurity, skyrocketing cost of food, while housing costs, education costs, and healthcare costs are wildly unaffordable. Half of the population seems to be in some hated minority group (non Christian, non white, non cis, lgbt, disabled, autistic, or whatever boogeyman) these idiots can hate rather than focus on the real enemies manipulating them.

It's heartbreaking to see it in your family and neighbors. They voted their country away to own the libs. They don't give a shit about the kids they sent to die in this stupid war. Or those kids they sent to rot on a boat.

At least they were able to prevent those two trans kids from playing sports I guess.

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[-] floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 2 days ago

Even if it is expected and has no effect on the carrier's performance, the optics are pretty bad regardless. Half of its job is projecting power, and a rusty ship doesn't hit the same. Looks like soviet tech in western representations, working but barely

[-] filcuk@feddit.uk 10 points 1 day ago

The cost to maintain these must be insane. A quick uneducated search gives me about half a billion $ per year. Absolutely bonkers.

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[-] countvon@lemmy.world 84 points 2 days ago

Not the most ragged lookin' ship I've ever seen, but for a representative of the world's most expensive Navy she's looking absolutely shabby.

[-] heartSagan5@lemmy.zip 9 points 1 day ago

Going to need some Rust-eze on that

[-] toiletobserver@lemmy.world 52 points 2 days ago
[-] joelfromaus@aussie.zone 21 points 2 days ago

Sponsored by Rust-eze Medicated Bumper Ointment.

[-] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

That must be what freedom looks like

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[-] saimen@feddit.org 8 points 1 day ago

Still the funniest fact about Darwin is his legendary hatred for barnacles, also the fact his kids just thought a dad having barnacles for study was normal.

[-] blackshirt@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

This reminds me of Asimov's Prelude to Foundation and the signs of the fall of Trantor

[-] EmptyAsparagus@piefed.social 10 points 1 day ago

wow, maybe the military need more money to fix up their stuff. the only cause of this could be lack of funding, right? right?

[-] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

Yeah a 1.5 trillion dollar budget just isn't enough /s

[-] BilSabab@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

military tend to have some of the most creative accounting so no matter how much it is always not enough even though by all metrics it is more than enough

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[-] BrickEater@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

I hope it sinks.

[-] Audacious@sh.itjust.works 16 points 2 days ago

Asked my dad about this, because he was in the navy a long time, and it's normal, and the ship is sitting high, indicating light load, which makes sense because of the deployment circumstances.

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[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 19 points 2 days ago

We don’t get to make fun of the Admiral Kuznetsov ever again

[-] T00l_shed@lemmy.world 24 points 2 days ago

We can do both

[-] real_squids@sopuli.xyz 17 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

This one's got a long way to go to being Kuznetsov'd, for one you need to weld off unused areas, then make the engine room look like something from Saw, replace the catapult with a cope slope. Oh, and have it spew clouds of black smoke whenever it's not moved by tugs (which is like 10%), maybe keep it in port for "modernization" for a few years too

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[-] clucose@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Seawater is really aggressive. I don’t think this is really a big issue as everyone makes out of this.

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[-] stumu415@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 day ago
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this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2026
470 points (97.6% liked)

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