Abolish the police state, don't stop at DHS.
Gotta slowly reverse boil the frog - these are definitely great first steps and will hopefully warm the public up to demilitarizing, then defanging, then defunding/abolishing the police state.
Nope, unless they promise to immediately fix every problem they're not worthy of supporting
/s
Sadly, a lot of people on the left think this way
You /s but over at Hexbear they're sth that Mamdani isn't solo sailing to Gaza
Yeah, but those idiots aren't wort worrying about. Hell, they may not even be real people and if they are I'd be willing to bet most of them aren't American.
OMG someone on lemmy who understands that things don't happen over night. I had heard such people existed but I seriously doubted it. The majority I run into think it could all be gone by next election cycle if we all voted for some fringe candidate with no hope of election.
Yeah I really don't want to just jump into a sudden backlash that undoes every gain
End the Patriot Act.
I think a live streamed execution of George W. Bush would be a good way to build back the patriotism after we destroy the Patriot Act. A legal execution of course after he is found guilty for his countless war crimes. Then we can do Clinton, Obama, Biden, and Trump.
a live streamed execution of George W. Bush
This is no better than live streaming Hasan Nidal's execution. The US may be fucked, but it's still better than that, currently.
Just ratify the Rome Statute like we should have, instead of backing out in 2002. Let the International Criminal Court try US government officials for their many international crimes.
Yes. The comment was meant to be tongue in cheek in reference to that. We don't have to live stream it. I think it would be better to sell tickets. Do it in a major sports stadium.
Also the Espionage Act.
And Taft-Hartley
A lot of us remember an America without it and the DHS. They are both 9/11 knee jerk reactions that have been nothing but bad for us, exactly like the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions. We would have been so much better off to just take the (L) after 9/11 but W kept trying for a (W).
DHS has always been a dystopian reminder of the ruination of America that began with the response to 9/11. I never agreed to give up any freedom for their security theater. They just did all that shit to us.
You might not have. But Americans reelected Bush after all these awful post 9/11 policies. There was no appetite for an antiwar and anti surveillance state post 9/11. Americans aren't all victims. They are just mostly sheep.
I think the pew research poll immediately after 9/11 shows you're in the minority, unfortunately.
Back then I probably would have agreed with it, if I had a clue what it even was.
But I've changed a LOT since then and have actively hated the entire existence of DHS ever since.
It's crazy how many people think we've always had DHS...
There are a lot of adults alive today who’ve had it their entire lives
Famously, anything that happened before I was born, is not relevant to my life.
No party is more progressive than Democrats when they know their bills have absolutely no hope in hell of passing.
It's not the party, though. There are progressive members of the party, and when they introduce bills like this, the rest of the Democrats cough uncomfortably, and sidle away quietly, leaving the brave progressive to bear the full brunt of the right-wing outrage machine. (See, for example, the Green New Deal.)
Yep, start rolling back all those patriot act police state bullshit.
DHS formed in the wake of 9/11 because federal agencies could not get their shit together and collaborate. Whether by design or rapid evolution, it became less of a coordinating agency between disparate federal intelligence agencies and more of a mysterious extra-judicial entity with a military arm. Oh and TSA. Let's not forget about humble ole' TSA.
It does make sense to have someone who coordinates all the different federal police and intelligence forces in the country. The US has TSA, ATF, FBI, CIA, NSA, DEA, Secret Service, Federal Marshals, even the USPS has a police force.
Without some kind of coordination you have undercover agents of one service being wiretapped and followed by another service. Plus, you get the kinds of things that happened around 9/11 where each agency had a slice of the picture but they weren't sharing info so nobody had the whole picture.
I think in a sensible country ATF would be the alcohol branch, tobacco branch and firearms branches of the federal police force. DEA would be the drug enforcement arm of that federal police force. It seems really strange to me that the FBI is basically the federal police force, but for some reason when it comes to firearms-related crime, that's someone else's department.
Also, in a sensible country, someone would be policing the police. I don't actually think any country has properly figured that out though. In reality, it seems like an important role for the police is to enforce the status quo, and ensure that the people on top remain on top and the people on the bottom remain there. That allows police to place themselves slightly below the people on top, but importantly significantly above those on the bottom. Because of that, I don't think the rich and powerful in any country really want a fully controlled police force, otherwise they can't do the extra-judicial things that maintain the hierarchy.
The duplicative nature of DHS isn’t incompetence, it’s deliberate deception. DHS was created to put down dissidents in America, not terrorists.
Many of us remember the creation of DHS and we said then, and many experts also said then, that the department was going to be bad for Americans. In fact, it has been just as bad as we expected.
Does anyone actually feel safe because of TSA compared with previous airport security? I sure don't. We certainly got safety by having locked reinforced cockpit cabins. But the agents who are doing the scanners, they miss weapons all the time. And of course they don't get paid well so if they wanted to smuggle weapons in I'm sure they could do so easily enough.
And that's before we started talking about ICE.
Honestly, I'm more scared of TSA than anything they are supposedly preventing.
They do prevent a lot water bottles and belt buckles that would otherwise be a serious threat to the safety of good law-abiding citizens.
Security theatre is security theatre. However, prior to TSA airlines were responsible for security. They contracted that security out to the lowest bidder:
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1035131619/911-travel-timeline-tsa
That being said, my argument is not that TSA is better. I'm not arguing at all. I'm just offering some additional information to highlight what came before TSA.
💯
It was created in my lifetime and it totally fucking sucks. If we have to cut things because of budgetary concerns, it's a great candidate.
Abolish the presidency
I see your dhs and raise you the police.
At this point, it's going to be neigh on impossible to do away with the DHS. Few have any idea of just how much stuff has been crammed into that department. Everything from law enforcement down to FEMA and even the fire trucks and boots your local fire department use.
That monster is huge.
Huh, almost like that was the point -- make it so sprawling people can't comprehend getting rid of it. Too bad a lot of us remember a world before the DHS, and it wasn't rampant street terrorism in the USA like they'd have you believe.
If the fire department was put in it then it can be taken out.
Or just disband certain departments of the DHS.
The slogan doesn't have to exactly match the execution.
The whole position and power of the DHS needs to be reviewed and reworked. In most other countries, this is handled by the equivalent Department of the Interior. The department doesn't need to have it's own unchecked military force to get the job done.
Abolishing it should be the minimum.
This is your reminder that KGB meant (in Russian) basically the same thing as Department of Homeland Security.
Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti (Russian: Комитет государственной безопасности), which translates to the Committee for State Security
Abolish the Republican party. Abolish corporate entities. Abolish private ownership of powerful technology. Abolish secret science in the form of private research. Everyone needs to know what you're doing with the worlds resources and whether it's a threat to the community. Eliminating the privacy of the powerful is the only surveillance system that is actually needed, for the safety of the community.
Abolish conservatism.
Go further abort Capitalism
In theory, a cabinet-level department can be removed with a bill that says "this entity is no longer a thing". But capitalism isn't an entity... You can't really remove it so much as you set up entirely new policies that would replace it. And that is a much different ball of wax to figure out
Sounds radical.
But I can't think of a single reason why we shouldn't abolish DHS
The people who will fight this the hardest will be the long toothed democrats unfortunately
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