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[-] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 5 hours ago

I can see reasons for why you would like to access them remotely. The bigger question in my mind is why are they connected to the internet so shittily?

When we place devices in customer networks we have the device open a VPN tunnel back to our concentrator node, and route our management traffic through it.

Then the customer firewall blocks anything incoming as usual, and all we need is the rules to allow outgoing VPN client traffic and established rules for the responses from the server.

[-] limelight79@lemmy.world 1 points 26 minutes ago

I can see value in monitoring them remotely. I'm not sure I see much value in being able to change the temperature setting remotely. If you need to change the setting, there's probably already something wrong...

[-] xemi@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

I agree on the wifi thing, especially after the military ones got hacked and without explanation yet. So stupid!

Assuming it's impossible to disconnect them from wifi, why has nobody decided to hire people to act as "security" in the event they do start heating up? Even some workers externally from a security company on just on 1 month contract? These attacks happened in the night time, naturally, and it was too late by the time someone came in to open the store. Is it better to hire a security guard onsite for $25/hr for 1 month with fridge operating training, or pay $200,000 in damaged goods and have to close your stinky store down?

[-] TrackenDaKracken@lemmy.world 20 points 22 hours ago

There's no good reason for temp control itself to be attached to the internet. The people who work on-site can handle that. There are always people on-site who stock the fridges and cleaning, etc., and the managers for those workers. These things aren't sitting alone in a building with no human oversight for miles around. Monitoring and logging can be centralized while air-gapping the actual control of the temp.

I have no doubt that's exactly what they're working on right now.

[-] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago

yeah god forbid we pay someone to keep an eye on shit. to tweak settings and make sure all our food doesn't melt.

[-] Napster153@lemmy.world 4 points 11 hours ago

The profit cults have a different demand from logic and reality. They do not condone to its existence.

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[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 17 points 23 hours ago

TBF: They call home when a unit needs maintenance; they can turn the temperatures up a little when the store is closed early or opens late. There's likely some ecological upside.

That said, a complete ruin of all the frozen goods probably wipes out years of cost-saving and eco-savings.

[-] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 4 points 22 hours ago

The temp in a freezer should never need adjustment. In fact, once the installer sets it, it should never be touched again. The only thing that should have anything like internet access is an alarm with a thermometer so you know when it's not working.

[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 7 points 21 hours ago

once the installer sets it, it should never be touched again

True before the invention of variable-speed compressors, predictive defrost, and grid spot pricing

There are a LOT of savings to be had in automation on newer hardware.

[-] matlag@sh.itjust.works 6 points 20 hours ago

If it's systematic, the whole thing can stay on a local controller. The question is about Ilternet connection, no one asked to get rid of automation.

If it requires frequent changing due to factors outside of the store, I would also wonder what they're doing with these.

[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 2 points 18 hours ago

Grid spot pricing, Corporate hours management. Complaints from a store about the need to defrost a specific unit.

All the stores hit a "cloud" server the manufacturer manages, letting a single corporate location call the shots on consumption. I also find it likely they can call up individual VFD's and run diagnostics.

Yes, since the dawn of refrigeration, we've gotten along fine without it, but I wouldn't say it's useless to have bidirectional communication because some idiot installers in cooperation with the idiot supermarket IT let the controller have a public IP or because the vendor didn't think to lock remote manual defrost to a sane time limit.

[-] MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago

Why not let the client manage the cloud server?

[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 1 points 51 minutes ago

No money in letting the market chain self-host :)

Presumably, the manufacturer would do better at updates and monitoring. That said, looking at where we are, i'm not so sure.

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[-] A_norny_mousse@piefed.social 25 points 1 day ago
[-] Tja@programming.dev 7 points 22 hours ago

Sorry, a kid in China tried to ssh into amazon.com, no shopping today!

[-] perturbedstarstuff@lemmy.world 6 points 12 hours ago

After the '4' incident my calibration for guessing if something like this is a joke is completely broken.

[-] Tja@programming.dev 1 points 5 hours ago

My point is that hackers usually try to get into productive servers. You cannot just shut them down for every hacker attack, or you would never be online. You need to keep the business running while at the same time defending from attacks, so while the top scenario has a bunch of technobabble, it is more realistic.

[-] Smoogs@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

you set that root account to 'no' in the config, right?

... RIGHT??

[-] Bluewing@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Just how do you expect to move the plot along!?!?

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[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 day ago

Unplug those freezers :)

/s

[-] Randelung@lemmy.world 31 points 1 day ago

Having worked in automation, OTSec adoption is in its infancy. SSO? SSL? Shared passwords everywhere, mostly root or admin. Usually walled garden approach, and once you're in, those apples are ripe for picking.

[-] ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 5 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

I asked this question before and I will ask again... What advantages do internet connected fridges have over non-internet connected? Automatically ordering groceries? That is bullshit. I will order what I want when I want it. And I have always gone to the supermarket to do so that except a few times during quarantine.

Adjusting the temp based on what is in there? Firstly what is in my fridge is no one's business. I do not want my eating habits (or what I buy and forget to eat) to be known by some fridge company.

I cannot think of a reason to have a smart fridge. But I want to know what the reasoning is? More importantly, why it even needs a net connection.

[-] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 8 points 22 hours ago

This is about commercial fridges for supermarkets etc., which also don't need to be connected to the internet, but the way they're sold is that they'll collect data for analytics and save on labour by being centrally managed so I get why business idiots go for it

[-] MyVeryRealName@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago

Collecting data for analytics and saving on labour by being centrally managed makes sense

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[-] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

They are connected so they can be controlled and serviced from a central location. These aren't consumer fridges. These businesses basically hire a servicing company and even lease the fridges from those companies. It's more cost efficient then having a guy in each store that basically does nothing all day to fix the occasional problem. And waiting for a repairman to physically come in so they can just reboot or just change some parameters is also not ideal. The problem isn't that they are connected the problem is that people don't take internet security seriously. Like recently some Danish government server got hacked and data from citizens got stolen because a government worker didn't change the default password of his account.

and now they're figuring out the other side of that cost equation, that there's a large amount of risk by exposing it. I agree on the monitoring side, that makes sense, but the fact that they had more than "read" permissions enabled at all shows that they didn't do security well, and this is the cost of doing that. If they didn't want to do security the right way, then maybe they should go back to how it was done in the 70s with a guy sitting in there watching them.

[-] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 5 points 22 hours ago

What!? And pay a person a wage!? No, better to spend billions of dollars putting it all in the cloud.

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[-] Railcar8095@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

Because they were designed with cloud first mentality, they are fetching the temperature 100 times per second to the server. In case of connection issues, they stop working.

Does this seen stupid? Yes. Did I make it up? Also yes. Is the true for a lot of consumer electronics? Yes.

[-] matlag@sh.itjust.works 3 points 20 hours ago

Yep, you know some solar panels stop working if the power management system can't call home (the corp).
Who could have thought that during a power outage, you may lose the connection??

[-] quantumgenderino@lemmy.blahaj.zone 52 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The only good reason I can think of for a fridge to be connected to the internet is to alert you to a compressor failure when it happens so you can get the food out of it.

Edit: I should have clarified that I meant consumer fridges, which I install for a living and so my brain defaulted to that. Commercial systems definitely need monitoring of some sort, and network access is the best way to centralize that.

[-] Strider@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

Well, the funny thing is the news in Germany reported theyre connected to the Internet to report issues...

And I'm here thinking okay why the fuck can you set the temperature then.

Also techies were shocked by the attack. No, absolutely not. Leaving stuff in the open like that...

[-] frank@sopuli.xyz 14 points 1 day ago

Automation engineer here:

You should use a Perdue Model to locally network the fridges, and then have their temperatures and alarms and such go to a server that's exposed (hopefully by VPN) to the internet

The level 1 devices should never ever be exposed to the internet

[-] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 5 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

but that's more expensive than just slapping an esp with wifi on there and telling it to connect to the fridge company server though

[-] frank@sopuli.xyz 2 points 16 hours ago

On day one, certainly. Now? Probably gonna hit that crossover point 😅

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