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His argument was literally that
don't bother, the "texts" are called bad faith.
Debating with a conservative is like playing chess with a pigeon. They just knock over all the pieces, shit all over the board and strut around like they won.
That's the thing! This guy actually is a very involved leftist, complete with theory and everything...and then he goes on to say this
They sound like a tankie. Tankies are leftists like Dr. Pepper is a medical doctor
I got the reference! Guessing you're Canadian?
I wish!
Ask him the question, what does he contribute to such a society as he envisions this AI will bring? And how does such a system combat the need for more data while destroying the means to get more clean data for the data set?
This falls apart for me specifically because Generative AI isn't a closed loop system and it's use.of "shared ideas" is by force or by deception, which doesn't make sense in a socialist or communist society.
Wait, I thought socialist communities were KNOWN for forcing people who greedily horde to share?
Art is Imperialist.
- My ass it is. Giving any degree of power to the commoners, which is what art does, is anti-Imperialist if anything. If anything, AI, which is actively taking power away from the commoners, is the Imperialist thing.
The art that AI creates is imperialist through capitalism. The only people that use AI art are the ones trying to sell you something. Either it's a view or a product. Most real artist understand that AI can't create, it can only emulate.
So is mental gymnast a bourgeois or proletariat form of labor?
Ah yes, aristocracy. That's why artists and writers are known for being loaded.
Those fucking AI ghouls believe the technology "liberates" the commoner from the supposed "elitism" and "gatekeeping" of the arts and some sciences by means of stealing the technique and style of creatives. They also happen to be parroting Hitlerian talking points, as it happened Hitler was a frustrated failed painter.
Nothing like arguing socialism and imperialism with people who don't know what either of those words mean.
AI is built on the unprecedented theft and exploitation of the intellectual labor of the creative working class by greedy capitalists.
I've talked with someone that argued that the concept of intellectual property is inherently capitalist, and therefore it taking the art and other works of people doesn't matter in the grand scheme.
And I guess I see the point. I don't agree with it, but I can't argue that well against it.
This is like saying we don't need to pay a minimum wage now because under communism each will be provided according to their needs.
IP is a necessary evil under the current system to stop distributors like Instagram, tiktok, or AI companies from taking labor from workers (artists, writers, etc.) without compensation.
IP is a necessary evil under the current system to stop distributors like Instagram, tiktok, or AI companies from taking labor from workers (artists, writers, etc.) without compensation.
Seemingly this did not work.
Almost like rules dont apply for the ruling class and the whole IP spiel is just, as pointed out, completely and utterly capitalist.
And to think that IP laws would prevent the rich from thieving is hilariously naive.
It’s literally a bias distribution device, owned by the wealthiest capitalists to have ever walked the earth
GenAI is anathema to socialism
Least insane tankie.
If we have UBI and share the output of everything everyone makes
and if the artist consents to their work being used in the training
and if we get rid of copyright/etc.
and if we solve the environmental issues
then MAYBE I'd be OK with that.
I still wouldn’t consume it because it has nothing to do with art.
I don't see it as art, either. I was just thinking of a state where maybe I wouldn't just be anti-most-kinds-of-"ai"
It's only a four point bullet list. Let's get to it, environment first 🙂
AI...at least how it's currently being deployed and marketed...is the ultimate expression of Capitalism. They are stealing the labor of others, and leasing it back to the public, for endless profit...all while destroying the environment and undermining the working class.
OP got trolled.
If AI really was a free resource, then maybe that part almost makes sense. It's losing billions per quarter, it's not free.
“helps everyone make things” instead of having to rely on skill and expertise and therefore makes everything equal,
everyone else is catching up”.
In both of these statements it sounds like they're saying, "the AI is smarter than me, and I'm stupid without it."
The open models in good inference engines can be dirt cheap, but that’s not a good argument because (among other reasons) it’s not the bulk of what is used.
I've been a software developer for a long time. If that asshole doesn't think working 16-18 hour days for months on end while sleeping under my desk because I literally didn't have the time to go home and come back constitutes hard work, well, he can fuck right off.
And lets be honest here, if they living in a socialist society, they're probably the one that freeload off everyone's hardwork.
Ok, that person is dumb as rocks, but hear me out....
In a post scarcity society, where livelihood is not tied to labor, the training and output of AI may be socialist.
Copyright, trademark, etc exist solely to protect the profitability of labor and capital. In a world where that is not required, the free sharing and reuse of ideas is socialist.
It can't exist today. And there are lots of other problems with how we're doing AI. But on some level, the fundamental concept of limitless sharing and reproduction of ideas is definitely socialist at its core.
I'm not trying to defend any of this person's arguments, but "art is imperialist" weirdly has something to it.
Empires love art. I mean i do too, don't get me wrong. But brutal imperialist regimes are tied to a lot of artistic flourishings. It's mentioned in The Dawn of Everything as a really common historical pattern which hasn't had much good scholarly work.
The musician and political scientist John Maus also talks about how music always reflects elite power structures - under capitalism music is a commodity, earlier it was to glorify god and the church, etc.
I think you can't study history without realising that there is some kind of connection between imperialism and art.
The talk of "opensource everything" will probably fall apart when they realise the tech they all use to do it isn't opensourced. Most aren't even openweighted.
Open source everything is good as long as you dont build the “open source” alternative out of slop
Enought internet for today...
Pointing out there there are artists and programmers ... who are all actively being harmed both by the theft of ideas and labor
I’m particularly incensed because I’m as leftist and anticapitalist
Bro is as anti-capitalist as Benito Mussolini
TIL I'm Mussolini for thinking that the fruits of labor should belong to the person that did the labor instead of being stolen and profited off of by faceless corporate billionaires
you're intellectual and private property's strongest soldier, which is the literal basis for capitalism
you say that you care about the theft of labor "from every race and economic class", which would include proletarian artists selling their labor for a wage, yet under such circumstance the art was already alienated and "stolen" from the artist by the capitalist hiring them given how wage labor and private property functions, it doesn't make sense. Where it does make sense is when it's applied to petty bourgeois (small business owning) artists, who as a class are the social basis for fascism (hence Mussolini)
Of course this is always the practical go to example:
The artist that wants to sell their art. This however is necessarily a petty bourgeois artists.
This the "fuck ai socialist" standpoint is whole heartedly capitalist since they effectively protect the petty bourgeoisie in general.
As long as the corporate head honcho is forced to toil alongside their workers it is good capitalism. Only when the head honcho is not on the production site anymore because the corporation is profitable enough begins bad capitalism.
To be fair OP... he is correct. You probably won't understand because you'd need to comprehend the "impenetrable philosophical jargon".
I can't tell if this is sarcasm.
this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2026
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