ToastedPlanet

=P

At the time, I was too busy glaring at the concept of irony being used incorrectly to know any of the slang you are referring to.

"We know we didn't literally die laughing. We're saying it ironically!"

I think I'm going to go Rick Roll myself, it's such as catchy song. XD

The way the Brits and French carved up the region was done to deliberately create nations with inner conflicts, easily exploitable.

That was true of US and western foreign policy more generally in the past. The idea being that if the Middle East is divided they wouldn't be a threat to Europe and the rest of the world.

Things are somewhat different now. The US wants to have its cake and eat it too. The current Biden administration realize if the Middle East is destabilized for too long someone like ISIS will takeover and be a problem for everyone. That's why they are trying to get Israel and Saudi Arabia to agree to a defense pact. The US is fine with a united Middle East, because from an economic perspective, these foreign wars are bad for business. The US wants what amounts to a second NATO to keep things running smoothly.

My point is that a united Middle East is a useful arrangement for the region and world regardless if the US or any other foreign power has a stake in it. In fact, better if it doesn't. An independent Middle East can interface with the rest of the world militarily and economically as a block. This will ensure mutual defense as well as economic protections for workers for the people living in the region. Without any pressure to take part in exploitive, debt saddling, deals like China's Belt and Road initiative or expansionist wars like Russia's war in Ukraine.

If the Middle East unites around ideas like self-determination for member countries, then they will be no more of a threatening superpower than Europe is now. And they will be able to stop the ambitions of hostile nations like Russia and Israel.

The peaceful transfer of power in democracies is a peaceful revolution. That's the entire point of elections, to change governments without fighting. If Trump and the Republicans manages to prevent either the 2026 or 2028 election they will have made peaceful change impossible.

Candace Owens is definitely using anti-zionism as a cover for antisemitism.

killing and/or ostracizing everyone on it who isn’t a ~~Jew~~ Israeli

Palestinians live in Israel and the Israel government does not care about Palestinian citizens of Israel. They claim to care about Jewish Israelis and Jews more broadly. A fascist makes a hierarchy not for the people at the top the hierarchy, but for the fascists. My only point was that Jews are at the top of the Zionist hierarchy, not that the Zionists in control of Israel care about Jews, because they do not.

Of course Israel and Russia, for that matter, do not really care about Jews or Russians respectively or people at all for that matter. Israel's fascist government targets Palestinians, Lebanese, and Syrians because they are the other. A scope goat to misdirect class resentment from the owner class to minorities and foreigners.

Israel does not care about the safety of Jewish people. Their constant deflection about how their military actions are in the name of protecting Jewish people, and the intentional conflation of anti-zionism and antisemitism, has only increased genuine antisemitism at the expense of Jewish people worldwide

No kidding and well said. I, as a Jew, am less safe now than before Israel's genocide. The point is the genocide is being carried out in the name of Israeli Jews and Jews more broadly, which sucks. To be clear, I am anti-zionist and anti-fascist, but not antisemtic. Anti-zionism and anti-fascism should always go hand in hand because zionism is a form of fascism.

Also, as long as I'm dancing around using the word, I don't particularly like the term diaspora Jew. I am not living in diaspora. I live in the US where I am full citizen. I have rights and freedoms here that are not preconditioned on whether or not I am Jewish. edit: typo

These dictatorships, and Israel with this current cabinet is effectively a fascist dictatorship, want to expand their sphere of influence and territory. They are willing to disregard the rules based order and risk WWIII even if that isn't the goal.

The Middle East seems to be in this three way power struggle now between Turkey, Saudi Arabia backed by the US, and Iran backed by Russia. Iran is part of this axis with China, North Korea, and Russia. Turkey is in NATO and wants to be a EU member, but is an enemy of the Kurds a US ally.

The US wants Israel and Saudi Arabia to join in a defense pact so our two allies will help us maintain peace in the region. Saudi Arabia wants to be the leaders of a new caliphate in the Middle East that unites the countries and Muslims living there. Defense pacts with the US and Israel would help them do that. But the Middle East is united in their support of Palestine which means Israel needs to make concessions on Palestine or Saudi Arabia will never be seen as a legitimate leader of the Middle East.

So Israel's genocide of the Palestinians is not only destabilizing the region and making Israel a pariah, it's also knee capping Saudi Arabia's ambitions. Saudi Arabia needs US support but they can't be seen as an ally to a genocidal Israel.

At the same time Israel has undermined Iran's proxy network which allowed Syrian rebels to win the civil war. Iran and Russia are now on the back foot in the region.

Rather than swoop in and be a uniter, Turkey is wasting time fighting the Kurds in Syria.

Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Turkey all want to be the leaders of a future caliphate, but thanks to Israel none of them are in a position to get it. This is a terrible situation for the people living in the Middle East and in the long run can only lead to Israel getting more land, influence, and resources in the region.

At this point a country without strong foreign ties that emphasizes the idea of self-determination for countries in the Middle East is more likely to unite the Middle East than Saudi Arabia, Iran, or Turkey. If Syria could recover from the war quickly enough, they could be in an excellent position to do this, given the HTS leader's talking points. HTS and the Kurds need to double down on an alliance and kick out ISIS and Turkey asap.

Peace in the Middle East is what is good for everyone in the long run, even if some people argue it could theoretically hurt US interests in the short run. A united Europe has benefited that region and the world tremendously. A new Middle Eastern super power might scare some policy people, but it would be an important counter balance to Russia, China, India, and Israel. Those four countries especially would happily carve up the Middle East into bits if they can as the US becomes isolationist under Trump. edit: typo

It depends how far Israel goes with this. Syria isn't in a position to to pick fights or hold grudges. But Syrian rebel groups aren't going to let Israel conquer them or leave them so debilitated someone else can conquer them. If Israel keeps it's attacks to abandoned regime military equipment and the land grabs to the Golan Heights then Syrian rebel groups are probably going to let it slide for the foreseeable future.

Responding to Jolani, the Israel Defense Forces chief of staff, Herzi Halevi, said: “We aren’t intervening in what is happening in Syria. We have no intention of administering Syria.”

It's also important to remember that when Israel says they don't want to administer other people or countries they mean they don't want to rule other people, they want the land and resources. That's why they are killing everyone in the Gaza strip and refusing to leave despite saying they don't want to administer Palestinians. Forming a greater Israel means taking as much land as they can get away with and killing and/or ostracizing everyone on it who isn't a Jew. edit: typo

They are all Abrahamic Religions. But that hasn't stopped nearly a thousand years of conflict since the First Crusade.

They're the same god in the sense that those religions claim they are the same god. But they are different in the sense that they are part of different religions that have long lasting disagreements. Abraham =/= Jesus =/= Muhammad. So they are different gods in the sense of what people kill each other over.

Hopefully this kind of attitude will lead to peace between these groups in the future. However, I think we shouldn't uncritically take what religion tells us at face value. Of course it's all made up, but the reasons it was made up are important.

Jews decided there was only one real god so they could invalidate other religions. Christians decided that god had a son so they could both benefit from the religion Jews started while also invalidating those same Jews. Muslims decided that a guy got an update from god so they could invalidate Christians and Jews while still benefiting from those religions and the idea of a single god. It's about using religion as a source of legitimacy for power.

Monotheism, or least pretending to be monotheist, has benefited religions, so no group wants to give that up. And it was probably seen as way to convert people from older religions. Again, hopefully 'they are all the same god' will be used to unite people in the future, but it's important to understand 'they are all the same god' was about leveraging existing beliefs for power. edit: word choice

Speak to nationalism

You're welcome to try it, but there are some reasons why a copy-cat strategy will run into issues. The MAGA movement do want shiny new toys, not solar panels specifically, but they don't want the wrong people, ie minorities, to get them. They think they elected a guy who is going to fight for them, get them what they want, and exclude the people they hate.

It's not just nationalism, but christian nationalism. Religion and conspiracies are being used as wedge issues against climate science and science in general. They don't trust experts and they don't trust the science. Solar panels aren't just an unnecessary technology, it's the wrong technology. The wrong virtue signal that they weren't taught as part of their religion or Qanon drops. These people would rather get a gas generator for their house than solar panels.

Stroke the ego’s

MAGA is a cult. As long as any group or person is seen as part of MAGA then they're in. This, at the moment, appears to be kind of arbitrary. As we saw dissatisfaction with many of Trump's cabinet picks from MAGA and a lot of support for Luigi Mangione also from MAGA. Unless we identify exactly what is considered in and out to the MAGA crowd, appealing to ego will not be sufficient. Even Trump doesn't seem to have a good sense of this, he seems to figure it out from trying and then reviewing the coverage later. Being seen as anti-elite is important apparently based on MAGA's response to the CEO killing.

Extract enough to make it worth your time.

What are you extracting? People have infiltrated white supremacist and neo-nazi groups before. They usually dox the people and release information about the group to the public and/or law enforcement. What are you getting from random people at a bar? It's definitely worth connecting with local people and a way to do that is to be social, at places like bars. But what's step two when you have specifically targeted MAGA people?

Use your leverage and make the demands they don’t want to refuse.

What leverage? I have conservative friends. When I argue about politics with them, my positions have no greater weight than anyone else's. edit: typos

Exactly. Pick up a bucket. We need to spread true information.