Source https://lemmy.zip/post/72029200/29026430
Join the lemmy.ml boycott today and help foster a better Lemmy-verse! No more posts, comments (except to counter their propaganda ofc!) or upvotes on any comms on the Lemmy.ml instance! To make this easy you can do an instance block at Settings > Block Tab > Scroll to bottom > Input "lemmy.ml" and apply
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"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether it be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users, as it handwaves their extremism.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post, rather than engaging in arguments that lack mutual agreement.
Brigading/Trolling — If you're here because this community was linked in another thread, please refrain from maliciously voting, commenting, or manipulating the post in any way. This includes alt accounts. All votes are public, and if you are found to be brigading, you will be banned. Good-faith and honest communication is an exception.
Tankies can explain their views, but may be criticised or challenged for them. Any minor infraction of the rules may result in a warning and possibly a temporary ban.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically last only 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction doubles the duration. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
So one of your premises for making the fediverse better is to remove the parts you don’t like / don’t agree with?
Can you not just scroll past?
Some would suggest that silencing / censoring your opposition is quite a tankie thing to do…
Edit: Judging by the repliers I’ve chatted to some people really seem to care a lot about this. I gotta admire your passion… whilst still having a different opinion.
Let's make an instance for Nazis, then, while we're at it. Otherwise we aren't tolerant enough /s
There are quite a few already. They just blocked everyone including each other and are now single instance dictatorships rather than a federation of instances.
Isn't that just sh.itjust.works?
They could call it something like @nazi.bar
@ReichHereReichNow
By Nazi I’m assuming you mean fascist and then I saw the word “tolerant” and almost couldn’t reply.
My level of Nazi tolerance varies greatly; I’ll tell you why: words should be countered by words, direct action should be countered by direct action.
Does driving things underground have a history of eradicating said thing?
I would prefer to confront / convert a fascist before they make a move then to have to kill one after they made their move.
You however might be more blase about ending human lives than me, granted.
Words to be countered with words only when a person speaks in a good faith and is ready to listen. Thats almost never the case in the internet, unless you are in some low pop group chat where people value your personal opinion. Thats not a lemmy format, we are too numerous. I'm basically nobody to you, why my opinion even matters?
.ml is not speaking in a good faith, in fact they ban opposing opinions. Its red fash propaganda platform. Block is the way.
Nobody is “nobody” to me.
Sorry, but that’s just how I roll, baby.
Well, the tankie instances very loudly advocate in defense of a terrorist state that is in fact attempting to end my life and life of every person in my country. Is that direct enough for you or am I not passing your purity test?
All valid… but surely you understand that some people just randomly go with the first instance they find?
I’m all for people personally curating feeds.
Not sure about purity tests, or really what that means here - I’m just giving an opinion. I’d be horrified if everybody else agreed with me…
If you walk into a nazi bar unknowingly thats fine. You can even go back a few times and most wouldn't think twice about it. But if someone asks you why your frequenting the nazi bar and their response is anything other then "I didn't know its a nazi bar." Followed promptly by them leaving that bar then they are infact also a nazi.
It can take a while before someone starts to notice a pattern in a group as large as a lemmy instance. Took me almost a month before i started to notice the pattern of every bad faith actor and asshole seemed to be coming from .ml over and over again.
.ml is just a "nazi bar" of lemmy. Just not literal nazis.
Hence this community, to give people more information on tankie instances.
Honestly, if I was on .ml and had already subscribed to the comms I wanted I’m not sure I’d bother to migrate… and slowly things would get quieter and quieter until I quit and told everybody I know, who’s tech literate, that the fediverse is dying.
god it’s a shame that there isn’t a community that could help someone in that situation. maybe somewhere tankie bullshit could be called out and put on blast.
oh wait!
The only thing I disagree with is the active push to defederate / total block list an instance based on the incorrect assumption that every single member can, at will, transmute into a homogenous extremist totalitarian hydra.
Do you know the English phrase: could not see the wood for the trees?
this statement would be real silly without all the hyperbole.
go on arguing if you want, but the idea that you’re seeking a good faith discussion here is dubious at best.
I don't know, if I was on .ml and saw links to posts where the instance's admins and mods are saying that killing people like me is a good idea, I would "bother to migrate". And then I would tell everybody I know, who cares to listen, that the fediverse isn't limited to a handful of fascist in red coats.
ml has a sign up form last I checked. It isn't just a click the first thing you see situation.
When I first encountered .ml’s instance I actually wondered why the Republic of Mali had such a strong presence in the fediverse.
I’m a bellend - that was for someone else.
I started on .world cause it was the first in the list of instances on the app i downloaded. I only moved cause they started blocking vpns and doing other stupid shit.
Took me a good soild month before i even noticed .ml was the unifying factor between all the idiots i kept seeing.
Yes driving "opinions" underground has a great track record of lessening their impact, especially when they aren't true.
Look the world is complex, hitler didn't kill a single person himself but his words certainly lead to death.
A lie travels way faster than the truth, we know for a fact that the more acceptable hate speech becomes the more likely real life violence will become.
So words lead to concentration camps in the US and now where is the action against the action that you speak of?
Lefties always make tge stake of believing rightwingers are completely sincere when they speak when in fact they don't really care about the truth and entertaining them often serves only one purpose, getting their message out there.
I
"Silencing / censoring" by asking that people merely block the propaganda instance via their personal block lists?
Yeah, that’s fine - but this just seems a bit like brigading.
If a person makes their own mind up, one way or another, good for them.
Brigading is weirdly natural when its against something stupid, harmful or problematic. Its only problematic when its being driven by bad faith or lies. Which is why its frequently against many groups rules. Because its hard to say when the person making the call to action is acting in good or bad faith.
But if it happens entirely naturally with out a centralized call to action its rarely problematic. Humans are generally really good at protecting themselves from problems. They are just shit at sorting truth from lie in group settings.
So its a hard balancing act.
The post is evidence to help them make their mind up. It's not like the OP can block anyone for that person.
Yeah, whilst trying to paint an entire instance broadly with a single brush…
I pop over to .ml for a few communities most days - never discussed anything political whilst there and had a jolly time.
My fediverse experience would be lessened via a blanket defederation / instance blocking.
You will get no one to like .ml here. Don't waste your effort.
no don’t you get it? their memes are cool! we can just ignore everything else and talk about memes!
the fediverse will die if we don’t share memes with the tankies!!!!
Don’t want them to like it, just acknowledge the possibility that it is a collection of individual humans that vary greatly in view rather than a single entity. Being on .ml shouldn’t automatically preclude you from being part of a bigger thing.
Apparently nuance is dead and everything is black and white, the gray scale has disappeared?
You are always free to walk out of the nazi bar if you don't like being called a nazi. Nothing is stopping you from joining a different instance. Theres hundreds of them after all.
Go join a LGBTQ furry instance and no ones going to think your a tankie at first glance.
To use an extreme, i can go into a nazi bar and have a great time, drink some beers and play pool. As long as i don't bring up their problematic politics or world views.
People even the worse of people can be fantastic to hang out with. Doesn't make them good people.
It's why you should never judge someone from first appearances. We are all human, and humans by default get along really well. Its the opinions, politics and other factors beyond the first appearances that cause problems.
So by your logic as long as we just ignore they racism, hate, and problematic politics and instance policies then the instance has no issues.
When their admins routinely push propaganda, ban users and delete content just based on their political disagreements and contrary to their own written rules (as thoroughly documented in this very community), it's much closer to the kind of thing you led with in your comment here. It wouldn't be excessive to want to stay away from the whole instance based on that.
Yeah, I get all that. But it’s opinion… I prefer to hear what everybody has to say, evaluate the source and then process what is said - and possibly why.
I get other people are different and just want to mute etc, nay bother.
I just don’t like people actively calling for a boycott. If you’re a functioning adult, pop over, have a look, maybe keep your mouth shut until you get the feel of the instance - and then make a decision…
it just seems a bit pitch forks and lanterns against the Bwci under the bridge.
(Plus it seems a bit weird to try and drive a wedge and foster resentment against where the devs of Lemmy be.)
If we can boycott Israel and totalitarian regimes and amoral corporations, we can boycott lemmy.ml
We can also boycott the US… whilst still talking to its citizens.
At this point you are just contradicting yourself and probably trolling.
Or maybe I’m just a random adult human who, shock horror, holds different opinions to you…
You literally said we shouldn't boycott people and things and then suggested boycotting the US. Make up your mind.
No, I was pointing out that you can boycott that country whilst acknowledging that not everybody who lives there wants complete fascista totalitarianism to wipe out everything that ain’t white and straight and Christian… and therefore keeping in touch with those folks is decent.
Sorry, perhaps I worded it poorly.
No you worded it perfectly fine. Unless he doesn't understand what an ellipses is or context.
The devs of lemmy are a bunch of racist twats... If your sucking up to the devs just because they are the devs then your just excusing hate speak because of hero worship.
Which in and of it self is extremely problematic. You may want to step back and think twice on why you hold that opinion.
I was gonna reply to some of your numerous messages - but this one takes the piss.
“Sucking Up”? Seriously - are you 5?
How I was brought up is if someone does something for you that is of no charge and you benefit from it - you at least say thanks, even if you don’t like the cunt.
This is the fediverse where you can disassociate yourself from toxic assholes. It's not like someone is being offed or put in prison for their opinions irl. Plus they have their own spaces. It is more like excluding authoritarians from an org or a party and telling them to associate themselves with like minded individuals.
No one has to be forced to tolerate toxicity.
Literally this, yes.